Is 8x32 or 8x42 the best Birding format? (2 Viewers)

[[email protected]]

8x30 or 8x32 is what usually goes out in the hilly woods.
That or the precision flat-field 7x35s of yore (Kowa Prominar, Bushnell Custom, Scope/Custom Model 3010, etc).
8x40 seems to be sharper, but the bulk is so much less at 8x32. Most modern 8x32s are amazing.

If I really want something sharp and strong, a 10x50 with nice EP is the bee's knees,
with a haze filter to cross the distance. So, the 8x40s and 8x42s are a tad batter,
but they are kind of orphaned in a larger collection by the power and sharpness of 7x50s and 10x50s
on one side and compactness of 8x30s.

If I had one pair for everything, birds, yard and pond, fishers, coyotes, night stars,
beaches...that would be an 8x(40-42), (with NO bulky rubber).

I think you can only call one size "better" if you want to only own one size,
and then it's personal. Most of us would be pretty sad with only one pair for all
the days and moods.

"that would be an 8x(40-42), (with NO bulky rubber).'

So you mean like the Leica Ultravid Blackline with leather so it is lighter and more compact?

 

[Boogieshrew]

You truly find the 42mm is more comfortable because of the bigger exit pupil?

I do indeed. I don't like the need for exact eye placement of a small exit pupil.

For me 7x42 is the most comfortable, with the 8x42 next and 8x32s I don't really like much at all (except the 8x32 SE which I love because of the porro 3D).
The exception are 7x30s which I prefer to 8x32s. I think I like them because the extra depth of field of the 7x compensates for the small exit pupil somehow.

Also, as you say yourself; "7x42 and 7x50's are comfortable and bright. You put them up to your eyes and everything is just "BOOM" right there. 6mm of Exit Pupil filling light smashing into your eyeballs. They are as they say the "Real Deal"."

So 8x42s approx 5mm exit pupil is almost the real deal and more comfortable and bright compared to an 8x32.

But for me 7x42 is king. Large exit pupil,easy to hold steady and great depth of field. What's not to like?

 

[dalat]

Wait a year or so and then buy the 8x32 SF...

 

[ceasar]

That is a very nice binocular for $1300. The nice thing about it is it only weighs 25 ounces and it is a 42mm. The disadvantage of a 42mm is size and weight and your Leica being small and light has overcome those weaknesses. If you could make a 42mm close to the size and weight of a 32mm everybody would have one. Why not. You have your cake and you can eat it to. The Zeiss 8x42 SF at 27.5 oz. is a little bit heavier but is supposed to be balanced better than most other binoculars. So maybe in a sense a light 42mm is the best of both worlds. Personally the FOV would bother me a little on your Leica though. When you are use to 420 feet it is hard to give up that 31 feet. I would imagine the bigger FOV of the Zeiss 8x42 SF versus my Swarovski 8x32 SV would be the biggest benefit of buying the Zeiss. A 25 foot larger FOV is a pretty big difference.

Dennis,
You won't find a $1300.00 25 ounce top of the line 8x42 just anywhere but the Demo Blacklines can still be found at this price at Camera Land along with Leica Silverlines in the same size, which also weigh 25 ounces.


http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/site.pl?page=40653


These Leica Blacklines and Silverlines normally sell new for about $2000.00. If that is too much money you are still stuck with top of the line Rival 8x32s and 8x42s which cost even more than $2000.00.

You pay your money and take your choice. That's the way it works.

Bob

 

[NDhunter]

Dennis,
You won't find a $1300.00 25 ounce top of the line 8x42 just anywhere but the Demo Blacklines can still be found at this price at Camera Land along with Leica Silverlines in the same size, which also weigh 25 ounces.


http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/site.pl?page=40653


These Leica Blacklines and Silverlines normally sell new for about $2000.00. If that is too much money you are still stuck with top of the line Rival 8x32s and 8x42s which cost even more than $2000.00.

You pay your money and take your choice. That's the way it works.

Bob

Bob and others:

I don't like to plug sellers, but since you mentioned them, right now until Jan. 24th, Cameraland is having a 10% off all optics, new, demo, open box, etc. They are moving to a new location, and this is a moving sale. I found this on another webforum they sponsor.

I have purchased from them, and they are very good to deal with.
You would have to phone them to get this additional discount.

Jerry

 

[looksharp65]

"Is 8x32 or 8x42 the best Birding format?"

Maybe.

 

[Pinewood]

Hello all,

My 8x40 sits in the cupboard. My 8x32 is the binocular I chose, when I carry only one. When I carry two, they are usually a 6.5x32 and a 10x32. If I did not own the 8x32, the 8x40 might get some use. I think that hunters need the extra minutes of twilight use provided by an 8x42, but bird watchers may need that less. In the tropics, and in much of continental USA, the difference may be too small to be worth the added weight and bulk.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

 

[Tantien]

Though I am no birder, I guess this question can be addressed in a rather general way: To most users, the 8x32 can do the job during 90% of the observation time. It falls short in certain, but rather rare situations.

The only question then is: Is it worth carrying 200g extra weight of the 8x42 for the remaining 10% of the observation time? That is a question you will have to answer for yourself.

Cheers,
Holger

Made this point for a newbie earlier but I'm not confident that this will hold true for this crowd.

If the EP for an 8x32 is 4mm

And the EP for an 8x42 is 5.25mm

And your your max Eye Pupil for your age is about

• 40 years old: 6mm
• 50 years old: 5mm
• 65 years old: 4mm

Then if you are over 50 years old, the 8x42's 5.25mm EP is wasted because your pupil can't open wide enough to receive the EP. True?

So [all other things being equal like glass] an 8x32 will be useful for a 50-65 year old whereas a 8x42 will stop being brighter than an 8x32 after 50.

Is this not true or is this logic flawed in some way? Is the light gathering capability of an 8x42 still better even if your eye cannot open to receive the extra light shaft?

Or is this something like a light intensity (lumens contained within the EP shaft) is higher for 8x42 vs 8x32?

Glenn

 

[WJC]

Hola "all" Tambien:

At college--especially at finals time--I've seen the debate over which is the best round to take deer hunting: a 30-30, 30-06, or 308, last 3 days. And, of course, there was always one guy who wanted to support his buying decision by touting the 303 British.

I think it safe to say that the poor guest of honor in that debate would have been loath to take part in that discussion; placed properly, any of those rounds would do as intended.

“Thus, is the 8x32 or 8x42 best for birding?”

WITHOUT A DOUBT! |=\|

 

[[email protected]]

Made this point for a newbie earlier but I'm not confident that this will hold true for this crowd.

If the EP for an 8x32 is 4mm

And the EP for an 8x42 is 5.25mm

And your your max Eye Pupil for your age is about

• 40 years old: 6mm
• 50 years old: 5mm
• 65 years old: 4mm

Then if you are over 50 years old, the 8x42's 5.25mm EP is wasted because your pupil can't open wide enough to receive the EP. True?

So [all other things being equal like glass] an 8x32 will be useful for a 50-65 year old whereas a 8x42 will stop being brighter than an 8x32 after 50.

Is this not true or is this logic flawed in some way? Is the light gathering capability of an 8x42 still better even if your eye cannot open to receive the extra light shaft?

Or is this something like a light intensity (lumens contained within the EP shaft) is higher for 8x42 vs 8x32?

Glenn

Even though I am in the over 50 group it seems like an 8x42mm is brighter to me in low light situations like dawn and dusk and in a shady tropical rain forest. I know what the theory says but it seems like it is only true on a sunny day. I think some people also may maintain a bigger maximum eye pupil for their age also. I have compared 8x32 to 8x42 at dusk many times and it always seems like the 42mm is a touch brighter.

 

[[email protected]]

Hola "all" Tambien:

At college--especially at finals time--I've seen the debate over which is the best round to take deer hunting: a 30-30, 30-06, or 308, last 3 days. And, of course, there was always one guy who wanted to support his buying decision by touting the 303 British.

I think it safe to say that the poor guest of honor in that debate would have been loath to take part in that discussion; placed properly, any of those rounds would do as intended.

“Thus, is the 8x32 or 8x42 best for birding?”

WITHOUT A DOUBT! |=\|

My vote goes for the 30-06.

 

[OPTIC_NUT]

"So you mean like the Leica Ultravid Blackline with leather so it is lighter and more compact?"

Right...sort of.
Though I did check out the weight of the Leica 8x42 BL, and it's a ponderous 54 ounces!
The metal seems to dominate...hugely.

If the theory hold true that you still cannot use polycarbonate composite for
the most super of binoculars, it seems the 30mm aperature is the only hope of
saving weight. The 8x32 Ultravid is only 19 ounces. (actually, that's light for its class)

I guess armor only matters as part of an overall attempt at weight reduction.

When it comes to detail, an 11x70 would beat all, but convenience and shake
drive home the need for practicality.

 

[Chosun Juan]

Dennis,
You won't find a $1300.00 25 ounce top of the line 8x42 just anywhere but the Demo Blacklines can still be found at this price at Camera Land along with Leica Silverlines in the same size, which also weigh 25 ounces.


http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/site.pl?page=40653


These Leica Blacklines and Silverlines normally sell new for about $2000.00. If that is too much money you are still stuck with top of the line Rival 8x32s and 8x42s which cost even more than $2000.00.

You pay your money and take your choice. That's the way it works.

Bob

Bob, have you investigated replacing the objectives with those of the Ultavid HD+ ? The FL glass in those should be even lighter. I like the Silverlines -- with the addition of the HD+ lenses that's starting to look like an awesome lightweight compact ×42mm classy alpha bin .... especially for 1300 + a bit for the FL lenses ................ hmmmmmmm :king:

Chosun :gh:

 

[ceasar]

Made this point for a newbie earlier but I'm not confident that this will hold true for this crowd.

If the EP for an 8x32 is 4mm

And the EP for an 8x42 is 5.25mm

And your your max Eye Pupil for your age is about

• 40 years old: 6mm
• 50 years old: 5mm
• 65 years old: 4mm

Then if you are over 50 years old, the 8x42's 5.25mm EP is wasted because your pupil can't open wide enough to receive the EP. True?

So [all other things being equal like glass] an 8x32 will be useful for a 50-65 year old whereas a 8x42 will stop being brighter than an 8x32 after 50.

Is this not true or is this logic flawed in some way? Is the light gathering capability of an 8x42 still better even if your eye cannot open to receive the extra light shaft?

Or is this something like a light intensity (lumens contained within the EP shaft) is higher for 8x42 vs 8x32?

Glenn

Glenn,

The fact that one's aging pupils can't accommodate all the light a large exit pupil delivers may be over rated. A lighter weight 8x42 can still be a good compromise.

Let's assume that 4mm wide pupils are standard on 65 year old people. If so it means that your 4mm pupil will have more room to move about inside that 5.25 exit pupil. And that means that you do not need to set your IPD perfectly as it would have to be when you use your 8x32. A 7x42 would give you even more leeway and imagine what you could do with a heavy first rate 8x56!

That may be why so many people liked using those big 10 x 50 Porros for birding in the old days.

Bob

 

[cycleguy]

Hey All,

Happy New Year a little late but hope your 2015 is a good one!

Bob.. can I be one of your sons??? I'd love to get a Leica handed down to me. and your binocular shopping skills are 2nd to none.

Dennis... I was/am a die hard 32mm binocular fan. However, this past year I took along a 7x42 EDG for my 10 days of hunting... meaning in the field walking and stalking from pre-dawn to dark. I ended out parking the 32mm and carried the 42mm; something I never thought possible. It might be the 7x or the 42mm or a combination of the two... My companion #1 thought it was a keeper but better as a camp binocular; and my companion #2 liked it best... but I was doing all the carrying.

You might want to approach it with an open mind... maybe you to will find a welcome attitude for a 42mm binocular.

My preference is .308 (and I've been there and done that with both for a number of years).

CG

P.S. I'm real excited about the new Leica's and the Zeiss SF.... and I'm a little surprised there isn't much talk about the HT's at the moment. Hope to eventually find these in our local stores someday.

 

[gulf1263]

A very high quality 8x32 is light, compact and easy to carry.
I stopped using the 8x40/42 format after I bought my first high quality Swaro 8x30 SL.
If you are buying a high end 8x32 you will find almost no need for a 8x42 and will find the 8x32 much more compact and much easier to take with you.
The 8x32 can fit in large jacket pockets and even on a belt carrier, neither of which an 8x42 can do.
You are much more likely to take 8x32 with than an 8x42 and that makes it much more usable.
European's favored the 8x30/32 backed up with a much larger 7x42/8x56/10x50.
Mostly they used the 8x30/32 and only brought out the big guns for special circumstances.
Art

 

[ceasar]

Bob, have you investigated replacing the objectives with those of the Ultavid HD+ ? The FL glass in those should be even lighter. I like the Silverlines -- with the addition of the HD+ lenses that's starting to look like an awesome lightweight compact ×42mm classy alpha bin .... especially for 1300 + a bit for the FL lenses ................ hmmmmmmm :king:

Chosun :gh:

Chosun,

I'm afraid that Leica doesn't make the Blackline even with their standard HD glass.

The Ultravid came out in 2003 replacing the Trinovid BN. The Ultravid HD came out in 2009 upgrading the glass.

The Blackline Ultravid originally came out as a special item when the Ultravids replaced the Trinovids and they were never upgraded with them. The Silverline appeared during that period too. People susceptible to CA may not like using them at all!

See a more detailed history here from Company 7.

http://www.company7.com/leica/news.html#1September2000

Bob

 

[[email protected]]

Glenn,

The fact that one's aging pupils can't accommodate all the light a large exit pupil delivers may be over rated. A lighter weight 8x42 can still be a good compromise.

Let's assume that 4mm wide pupils are standard on 65 year old people. If so it means that your 4mm pupil will have more room to move about inside that 5.25 exit pupil. And that means that you do not need to set your IPD perfectly as it would have to be when you use your 8x32. A 7x42 would give you even more leeway and imagine what you could do with a heavy first rate 8x56!

That may be why so many people liked using those big 10 x 50 Porros for birding in the old days.

Bob

Yes, the bigger Exit Pupil makes it more comfortable but isn't 4mm enough? Is 5mm really that much difference?

 

[[email protected]]

A very high quality 8x32 is light, compact and easy to carry.
I stopped using the 8x40/42 format after I bought my first high quality Swaro 8x30 SL.
If you are buying a high end 8x32 you will find almost no need for a 8x42 and will find the 8x32 much more compact and much easier to take with you.
The 8x32 can fit in large jacket pockets and even on a belt carrier, neither of which an 8x42 can do.
You are much more likely to take 8x32 with than an 8x42 and that makes it much more usable.
European's favored the 8x30/32 backed up with a much larger 7x42/8x56/10x50.
Mostly they used the 8x30/32 and only brought out the big guns for special circumstances.
Art

That's very interesting. Use an 8x32 most of the time and then have a big 50mm for special occasions.

 

[peatmoss]

Made this point for a newbie earlier but I'm not confident that this will hold true for this crowd.

If the EP for an 8x32 is 4mm

And the EP for an 8x42 is 5.25mm

And your your max Eye Pupil for your age is about

• 40 years old: 6mm
• 50 years old: 5mm
• 65 years old: 4mm

Then if you are over 50 years old, the 8x42's 5.25mm EP is wasted because your pupil can't open wide enough to receive the EP. True?

So [all other things being equal like glass] an 8x32 will be useful for a 50-65 year old whereas a 8x42 will stop being brighter than an 8x32 after 50.

Is this not true or is this logic flawed in some way? Is the light gathering capability of an 8x42 still better even if your eye cannot open to receive the extra light shaft?

Or is this something like a light intensity (lumens contained within the EP shaft) is higher for 8x42 vs 8x32?

Glenn

Glenn, as the size of a person's pupils approaches the size of the binocular's exit pupils, proper alignment becomes more critical or the user will experience black outs. As Bob noted, this makes a proper ipd more important. But also, it means that the user must be more disciplined in staring straight ahead. To a great extent, the reason I enjoy using binoculars with large exit pupils in broad daylight is that it affords me the luxury of letting my pupils wander a bit without wandering outside the exit pupils.