AOU 2017 Checklist proposals (1 Viewer)

[Snapdragyn]

Is there somewhere to check the vote status on these? I've seen a post on Facebook saying that the Iceland/Thayer's lump passed, but no one there responded to my request for a link.

 

[jmorlan]

Is there somewhere to check the vote status on these? I've seen a post on Facebook saying that the Iceland/Thayer's lump passed, but no one there responded to my request for a link.

There is no public link. The Facebook post is based on rumor. Nothing is final until the next supplement is actually published in the July issue of the Auk.

 

[AlexC]

There is no public link. The Facebook post is based on rumor. Nothing is final until the next supplement is actually published in the July issue of the Auk.

While there may not be any official confirmation of anything yet, proposal 2017-C-6 makes direct reference to a vote on a different issue occurring - not Iceland/Thayer's, but may give credence to the rumor mill:

Adopt new English names for Melozone biarcuata and Melozone cabanisi

Background and Discussion:
With the passage of Proposal 2017-A-1, we voted to split Prevost's Ground-Sparrow Melozone biarcuata into two species.

 

[Mysticete]

While not published online yet, at least Rick Wright has seen the results

http://birdaz.com/blog/2017/07/01/the-fifty-eighth-supplement-to-the-aou-check-list/

I have to say I am perplexed quite a bit at some of the results. Thayers is lumped...understandable. Brown Creeper, Bell's Vireo, and Nashville splits not going through...not surprising.

But Yellow-rumped Warbler and Willet proposals failing to pass, while redpolls continue to be maintained as three species and the Cassia Crossbill gets split? that does not compute at ALL for me.

 

[Mysticete]

playing around with the urls can get you the decisions and commentary for the proposals

http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/comments/2017_A_comments_web.html

http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/comments/2017_B_comments_web.html

http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/comments/2017_C_comments_web.html

Another odd note...Hen Harrier split approved...even though most of the criticisms that you can apply to that split were used AGAINST the other proposals preventing their passing.

 

[AlexC]

But Yellow-rumped Warbler and Willet proposals failing to pass

Sigh. :-C

 

[Jos Stratford]

The nine-primaried oscines — the “songbirds” at the back of the bird books — have also been rearranged, giving us all a new sequence to memorize. ... the new sequence will be used in the seventh edition of the National Geographic guide, coming in a few weeks.

Groan...

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

While not published online yet, at least Rick Wright has seen the results

http://birdaz.com/blog/2017/07/01/the-fifty-eighth-supplement-to-the-aou-check-list/

I have to say I am perplexed quite a bit at some of the results. Thayers is lumped...understandable. Brown Creeper, Bell's Vireo, and Nashville splits not going through...not surprising.

But Yellow-rumped Warbler and Willet proposals failing to pass, while redpolls continue to be maintained as three species and the Cassia Crossbill gets split? that does not compute at ALL for me.

Agree completely.

But at least we avoided the ring-necked duck re-name.

 

[mb1848]

Thank you Rick & Morgan for your speed. I thought the Redpoll proposal was a done deal. Please read the comments on that. I was surprised no dissents on the Thayer's proposal but there is more data to collect. One commenter asked if there was a place for Bar-headed Goose. Reichenbach separated them in a sub-genus Eulabeia.

 

[Mysticete]

The nine-primaried oscines — the “songbirds” at the back of the bird books — have also been rearranged, giving us all a new sequence to memorize. ... the new sequence will be used in the seventh edition of the National Geographic guide, coming in a few weeks.

Groan...

The reordering isn't that bad...mostly it's shuffling off a lot of oddballs (Wrenthrush, Yellow-breasted Chat, etc) into there own families.

But with this revision, the linear order is pretty much set, at least at family level, since IIRC nuclear and mitochondrial DNA are all fairly consistent in showing this topology. So this will probably be the last major reorganization for the group.

 

[njlarsen]

I think the one really surprising thing is the Cassia Crossbill. The rest of the less expected things I see as result of the voting rules. These are set to conserve status quo unless there is a strong majority for change (I did not look them up now so say this from memory).

Niels

 

[Mysticete]

I am honestly wondering how well the Cassia split will go over with layfolk. People always get hyped about the idea of splitting species, even if the split has barely any support. Except for Crossbills...

 

[Brian J Small]

The Thayer's lump was made on guesswork. As one voter says, "In many ways this looks like a version of the problem we see with Hoary and Common Redpoll, weak genetic differentiation and weak morphological differentiation too. This being said, I think that there is sufficient data from a handful of breeding sites to indicate that these species do not breed assortatively. If we throw out Smith 1966, there is really no evidence that suggests Thayer's and Kumlien's act as distinct species when in contact, and there is at least some evidence suggesting that they do not breed assortatively."

There is also no real evidence that they do not act as distinct species - evidence is lacking so why vote now?

"..weak morphological differentiation.." is also open to question. How many of those that voted asked Steve Howell for his opinion on this?

Finally, what is the difference between Thayer's/Iceland Gull relationship and that of Glaucous-winged/Western Gull?

B

 

[SzimiStyle]

Anyone knows what the reason was for not passing Willet split?

 

[cwbirder]

Anyone knows what the reason was for not passing Willet split?

The Willet split got 6 yes votes and 5 no votes. If I were to broadly summarize the no votes, my summary would be that "more data are needed."

I was somewhat surprised this one didn't pass, as it seems like a fairly clear-cut case to me.

You can read the full comments on the Willet proposal here:
http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/comments/2017_A_comments_web.html#2017-A-10

 

[Mysticete]

Also people were uncomfortable with the degree of morphological and genetic differentiation between the two forms compared to other shorebirds.

I think my issue with these votes is that those reasonings could probably apply to Hen Harrier vs Northern Harrier, which also really overall doesn't have a lot of data, and certainly Redpoll which don't seem to have much consistent differentiation.

 

[Kratter]

"..weak morphological differentiation.." is also open to question. How many of those that voted asked Steve Howell for his opinion on this?

B

The coauthor of the proposal wrote a book on gulls with Steve Howell! I am sure he knows Steve's opinion.

Andy

 

[l_raty]

Andy, any chance to have the agrammatical gibberish "sinesciurus" corrected to the original spelling before it irreversibly enters the realms of official checklists...?
Or was this corrected already? It's all over the place in the proposal comments, but I just noted that Rick uses the correct spelling.

 

[mb1848]

People know it is named for a place without squirrels and that the genus of these squirrels is Sinesciurus but sinesciuris is the plural, squirrels so is correct. This is why the normals hate us.

 

[mb1848]

"weak morphological differentiation" I was disappointed that the proposal did not cite this Howell, S.N.G. & Elliott, M.T. 2001. Identification and Variation of Winter Adult Thayer's Gulls with Comments on Taxonomy. Alula. even just to say they disagreed with it. Perhaps it is hard to get a copy?