European Blue Butterflies for ID (1 Viewer)

[balkantrek]

About the new Blue... well, that is really tricky. The more I look at it, the more I think it is a Common Blue so faded that has lost its cell spot. Look at the longish mark in the discal area of the forewing, it is almost gone. I wouldn't be surprised if the cell spot has been simply wiped out.

Yes, I was wondering about this. And of course there are some Common Blues that lack the cell spot anyway!

I am starting to regret very seriously that I have binned all my faded blues pics two years ago in order to save space in my hard-disk :-C Silly me, I thought I would never be able to identify them :C

I have always come at nature photography from the 'record' side rather than the 'photography' side. In other words my first and foremost motivation has been to use my photographs to try and collect a record of the fauna and flora of a particular region. This has had its drawback in the sense I have a large colection of photos that have no 'photographic merit' and which would have been deleted immediately by most 'proper' photographers. But for 'scientific' reasons I have hung onto them either with the hope I can identify them later or because they show something that is of interest to me.

Let me attach another photo to illustrate this point...a terrible photo which should have been deleted immediately. But I didn't because I have kept it for identification as it will hopefully add another species to my record from that particular site!

 

[Gavia_immer]

Cristian, that is a lovely shot of a pair of Common Blues 'having fun'! :-O :t:

Balkantrek, I tend to do the same but I made a terrible mistake thinking I would never ID those Blues. It would have been great to have them here to discuss now :C

And your new Blue... a fem Polymmatus, I would say. Or even a fem Plebejus. But I need a fresh mind to work this out and it is way past my bed time. I will give you a proper answer tomorrow night.

Nighty night, everyone! :gn:

 

[Davebutterflyman]

I maybe wrong on this one and my eyes could be deceiving me but if you look very closely at the under forewing a few mm under the colon shaped black marking there is a vestige of a black dot which could be the very faded last remnants of a cell spot.This had to be zoomed at 400% and then the image saved and increased again and edited to highlight the area.I may be clutching at straws but i tend to agree with Gavia's first guess on P.icarus but it is very faded and i haven't really looked much further as yet.It might be a little too tough to work out but i have stuck my neck out anyway!......(waits for the axe to fall!)

Dave.

 

[balkantrek]

And your new Blue... a fem Polymmatus, I would say. Or even a fem Plebejus. But I need a fresh mind to work this out and it is way past my bed time. I will give you a proper answer tomorrow night.

I suppose part of me is looking to find a way to justify the identification of this as a female Zephyr Blue (Plebejus pylaon). It seemed an excellent match with a photo in my Lafranchis book, but I haven't been able to come up with any other similar pictures of female Zephyr's with which to compare it. Also, as usual, there seems to be a lot of variation possible in the species.

I also briefly considered Reverdin's Blue (Plebejus argyrognomon), but probably both of these ideas were just wishful thinking and I ought to have considered more carefully that it could simply be our old friend the Common Blue (Polyommatus icarus).

Anyway, for the moment I am still clutching on to me hope of a Zephyr! Until someone else can put me right!

 

[Davebutterflyman]

Hi Balkantrek.

There are certain similiarities with Zephyr blue and i'm still trying to work out if the dark chevron markings that border the orange lunules are arrow shaped and pointed enough as they seem to be on P.pylaon,it's a tough one Balkantrek and i'm hoping for you we can id it in the end.I'm more unsure on it now than last night but i'm sure we'll get there!

Dave.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Hi, all!

Balkantrek, I have been having a serious go with Zephyr Blue and although I cannot be sure, al least I see no reason of it not to be. At least, I don't think it is Common Blue. The kind of orange lunules and its extension doesn't look right for female Common Blue.

Still working on it. I just wanted you to know what I think for the time being

 

[balkantrek]

My main worry now about Zephyr Blue is the date of the photo. I have just re-checked my photo and I see it was taken August 14th. Lafranchis mentions this species can be seen in flight from mid-May until early-August, but others mention May to July including Kolev's website 'Butterflies of Bulgaria'. http://www.butterfliesofbulgaria.com/plesep.html

Does mid-August seem a little late for this species to be still on the wing?

 

[Gavia_immer]

My main worry now about Zephyr Blue is the date of the photo. I have just re-checked my photo and I see it was taken August 14th. Lafranchis mentions this species can be seen in flight from mid-May until early-August, but others mention May to July including Kolev's website 'Butterflies of Bulgaria'. http://www.butterfliesofbulgaria.com/plesep.html

Does mid-August seem a little late for this species to be still on the wing?

Balkantrek, I have seen species of butterflies way out their theorical time of flight. If the wheather conditions are good for them, they tend to flight longer. It happens continously here in Spain. Many species that the books say fly till July are seen at middle August in good numbers. It might happen the same in Bulgaria under good conditions.

 

[balkantrek]

Yes, one mustn't take the flight periods given in literature too rigidly.

I have had a look at the records for the locality (a limestone gorge) where I took the photo....and the following blues have been reported there:

Holly, Silver-studded, Escher's, Chalk-hill, Meleager's and Ripart's Anomalous.

In the vicinity there are also records of:

Zephyr's, Common, Amanda's and Turquoise, as well as Geranium Argus.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Well, folks, I have a little shock for you all. Do you remember the very battered possible Escher's Blue taken by Balkantrek in Bulgaria? I have attached the pic again so you know what I am refering to. Well, IT ISN'T AN ESCHER'S BLUE after all! Sorry guys but I see that clearly now. I didn't take notice of something that inmediately tells you it isn't a Polyommatus. I realised that now that I am working with the Plebicula species. It is the first 3 spots of the arch on the underwing. It is a pattern similar to the Plebicula Blues (1rst spot away from the second and third) only that it isn't a Plebicula either as it clearly has black around the orange lunules.

Which other 'Blues' have a similar pattern? The ARICIA species, the Arguses, with their already famous 2 offset spots!!! How is it that no-one of us has seen that? Probably my own fault as I assured you all from the beginning that it was a Polyommatus.

I don't think I am dreaming when I say I see a trace of checkered pattern on the fringes. And that matches with the Arguses. Check this link for Blue argus (Aricia/Ultraaricia anteros), please:

http://www.eurobutterflies.com/species_pages/anteros.htm

If it isn't that one, might be a Mountain Argus. And both species are found in mountainous areas of Bulgaria, so there is a good chance it might be one of those species.

 

[balkantrek]

Well done Gavia, thanks for going back and having another look. Blue Argus makes much more 'sense' based on known distribution. There are old records from the region where I took the photo.

You mentioned that Mountain Argus might also be a possibility, but I think we can rule this out. It has quite limited distribution in Bulgaria, just the mountains in the south-west between 850-2000m. My specimen was photographed at 300m in northern Bulgaria.

So I think we can safely mark this one down as solved!

 

[Gavia_immer]

Well done Gavia, thanks for going back and having another look. Blue Argus makes much more 'sense' based on known distribution. There are old records from the region where I took the photo.

You mentioned that Mountain Argus might also be a possibility, but I think we can rule this out. It has quite limited distribution in Bulgaria, just the mountains in the south-west between 850-2000m. My specimen was photographed at 300m in northern Bulgaria.

So I think we can safely mark this one down as solved!

Great!! :t:

Never give up IDing Blues! There is always a solution to the mystery! ||

I am not still completely happy with Marian's Escher's Blue and the 'infamous' Christian's mystery blue. I have not forgotten those two. I might see the light soon, who knows

 

[Cristian Mihai]

I saw this Blue in a hilly area in Vrancea county, Romania. Any idea about its identity?

 

[Gavia_immer]

Hi, Cristian! It seems we are back to the faded, battered Blues, aren't we? o

About the blue, lets see: typical underwing pattern of a Polyommatus (and now I have paid good attention to the first 3 spots of the arch), too faded adges to see if they are checkered or not but... there it is the cell spot to give away it is our old friend, Common Blue.

At least, that is what I think

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Thank you Gavia. This is my opinion too, but I know such a few things about butterflies... Soon I will upload some pics with another Blue (I suppose it was a Holly Bllue) taken in the same area.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Thank you Gavia. This is my opinion too, but I know such a few things about butterflies... Soon I will upload some pics with another Blue (I suppose it was a Holly Bllue) taken in the same area.

Cristian, do you realise that only 3 months ago you had no idea about butterflies, but you already can put a name to some of them? Even if you are not sure, you can give an opinion. That is the beginning, mate! :clap:

And yes, bring the Holly Blue here for confirmation! :t:

 

[madamcoolpix]

I'd go for a Common Blue too, Cristian, in spite of his ragged state!!! :eek!: They are a real challenge to ID when they look like this! I really regret all the pics of ragged Blue Butterflies I've binned, they would have added more fun to this thread now! :-C

Anyway, here I'm posting something for confirmation while we wait for Cristian's Holly Blue!

Last May, south of Picos de Europa (N Spain), I noticed a bright Blue Butterfly and I thought: "Adonis Blue!". I tried to take a nice picture but failed, couldn't even get the upperwing storm. The best I got was pic a. But later, I saw it sucking on a rock and took a nice picture (pic b). But when I got home, I realized by the second pic that it had not checkered fringes. Common Blue then??? :eek!: I thought it had bright Blue upperwing, obviously I was wrong!!!

But a couple of days ago, I started to get rid of the bad pics taken that day and... look what I found: there were two different Blue Butterflies in that spot, not just one!!! And the pattern of the spots in the underwing of the first Butterfly suits that shown by Gavia in her thread for the Plebicula Blues!!! o Is this then a Turquoise Blue? If so, I didn't dream, certainly there was a bright Blue Blutterfly around, but Common Blue too.

Can somebody confirm I found Turquoise Blue and Common Blue in that spot?

Thanks!

 

[Cristian Mihai]

So, the supposed Holly Blue is here...
P.S. I would like to ask you to help me to ID the moths from my threads:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=146640
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=146622

 

[madamcoolpix]

:eek!: It's not a Holly Blue, Cristian!!! I think you have here a Little Blue (Cupido minimus)!!! o

Super, something different!!!

Was this very tiny?

Holly Blues are always blue, both male and female. And the underwing spots don't look so round, are more like markings... If this was really very small, and with than underwing pattern with no traces of orange marks, you can suspect a Little Blue.

If it wasn't very small, then I'll have to check again what else it could be... but the underwing pattern is too similar to the Little Blues I've seen.

Let's see what the others think...

 

[Gavia_immer]

To Marian:

You can sleep soundly tonight o because your first pic is indeed a Turquoise Blue! :t: All matches to perfection. With that underwing pattern, vivid blue upperwing and white fringes, there is no other possibility in N Spain. And second is, yes, our beloved Common Blue.

To Cristian:

I agree with marian. What is 100% sure is that it belongs to the genus Cupido. The underwing pattern is just right. My only doubt would be a female Osiris Blue Cupido osiris but this one has the line of spots on underwing perfectly in line, which yours doesn't. I think you can savely consider your butterfly to be a Little Blue.