• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Let's talk PORROS! (15 Viewers)

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
Dennis,

The SE 10X42 is an excellent glass even compared to premium glass today, it has a 6 degree FOV that to some is narrow, however it is all usable. Additionally it is also a high transmission glass. I believe Roger Vine still has and uses one to this day. I have an early and a late model in the SE 10X42. The Nikon SE is the only porro I use on a regular basis, all three formats, and they are right up there with the few premium 10X42s I currently use.

Andy W.
Yes, I had an SE 10x42 once, and I thought it was a very good binocular. I remember it being very bright for its aperture. If it is right up there with your alpha 10x42s that is quite impressive. The 6 degree FOV is average but not bad. The 10x42 SE never got the recognition its more famous brother the 8x32 SE did.
 

elkcub

Silicon Valley, California
United States
Bill,
Apparently you didn't pick up on my sarcasm? Hard to believe. :oops:
Ed
 
Last edited:

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
Unlikely; why would a company (APM) that specialises in designing, building and exporting large specialist astronomical telescopes bother with manufacturing a few dozen 50mm porros to market alongside other branded models. Accordingly, they are not marked or advertised as made / assembled in Germany as far as I can tell.

It does seem strange but Astro-Physics which are famous for their legendary large refractor telescopes which you have to wait years for sells a line of astronomical binoculars also.
 
Last edited:

elkcub

Silicon Valley, California
United States
I can still easily see the illusion at 25m when I compare the Zeiss 8x50 Porro (baseline 130mm) to the Zeiss 8x56 FL (baseline 74mm). I asked Andreas to measure his 10x50's close focus because both Gijs and EdZ measured it at well beyond its spec, 15m and 50 feet respectively.

Henry
Hi Henry,

I haven't been following the thread too closely, but is proper attention being given to the influence of FOV? We had an interesting discussion about Retinal Offset and Field of View Effects on Apparent Size and Depth years ago. Both factors play a role, so FOV should be equated if retinal offset is the primary concern.

Ed
 
Last edited:

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
From what I read over on Cloudy Nights , the APM MS series are made in China .
I looked at my APM APO 7x50 binoculars, and they say clearly on them in white lettering APM Telescopes Germany. I couldn't find anywhere on them where they say Made in China. The build quality regardless of where they are made is very high though. For a big binocular I think the APM APO Porros fit your hands very well, and you can hold them easier also because of the way they are contoured and the wider spread of the optical tubes helps distribute their weight. They fit my hands better than some big 56 mm roofs.
 
Last edited:

PeterPS

MEMBER
Hello Peter, Henry and everyone ...

Today I tested it, first the absolute near point of my Fujinon 10x50 is exactly 15,40m, that would confirm the measurement of Gijs and EdZ if you take into account the series spread and the different eyes of the users.

To try the size differences, I have a large apple 16m. distance positioned on a table, a Conquest 10x32 and a FL 10x56 served as comparison binoculars.
And indeed, the apple appeared noticeably larger in Conquest and FL than in Fujinon, so I have to revise my statements made yesterday!
At a distance of around 30m. the apple in the roofs was always a little bigger, at around 40m. this effect disappeared at 50m. I could no longer perceive any differences in size.
So I can agree with Peter and Henry, I also see objects in the roof a little larger at close distances, even if this effect does not go quite as far as with Henry.

Later I compared the Conquest and FL, also here the same, a battery on the table at a distance of 4.50 m was visibly larger in the Conquest.

Since I usually only use binoculars for medium to long distances,(especially the Fujinon) I have actually never noticed this effect, learned something again, thank you gentlemen!

Andreas
Hi Andreas,
The illusion in question becomes stronger as the objective separation increases. Henry used a reverse porro in his comparison with a porro----the baseline of a reverse porro is (much) smaller than his IPD/the baseline of a roof, which is why he observed a stronger illusion.
Peter
 
Last edited:

CharleyBird

Well-known member
I looked at my APM APO 7x50 binoculars, and they say clearly on them in white lettering APM Telescopes Germany. I couldn't find anywhere on them where they say Made in China. The build quality regardless of where they are made is very high though. For a big binocular I think the APM APO Porros fit your hands very well, and you can hold them easier also because of the way they are contoured and the wider spread of the optical tubes helps distribute their weight. They fit my hands better than some big 56 mm roofs.
Of course APM are made in China. It's no secret.
 

henry link

Well-known member
It does seem strange but Astro-Physics which are famous for their legendary large refractor telescopes which you have to wait years for makes a line of astronomical binoculars also.
Astro-Physics never made binoculars. They probably came from the same Chinese factory that makes APM binoculars. I don’t see them on the A-P website anymore.
 

henry link

Well-known member
Hi Henry,

I haven't been following the thread too closely, but is proper attention being given to the influence of FOV? We had an interesting discussion about Retinal Offset and Field of View Effects on Apparent Size and Depth years ago. Both factors play a role, so DOF should be equated if retinal offset is the primary concern.

Ed
Thanks for the link, Ed. I recalled that thread, but not all the details. I guess my view about the relative strengths of FOV and objective baseline on perceived magnification hasn’t changed much.

I didn’t have a DSLR at that point. It makes measuring true magnification much easier.

Henry
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
Astro-Physics never made binoculars. They probably came from the same Chinese factory that makes APM binoculars. I don’t see them on the A-P website anymore.
Astro-Physics did market binoculars for a while under their name. I agree they were probably made by somebody else. There are still some around. You can tell they weren't made by AP by the price!

"Roland's comments about the previous version of these binoculars. As noted above the newer, current version provides a flatter field, are sharper at the edges and color fringing is reduced. :"For years, I have been searching for the perfect binocular companion to my telescopes. A binocular which would be of a nice size to hand hold for wide-field sweeps of the night-sky, as well as for birds and wildlife and for long distance daytime views of mountain and ocean vistas. Almost all inexpensive binoculars that I have tested have had too many compromises in their performance for my personal needs. I was made aware of a small company that specializes in high-quality military binoculars, and had them send me a modified set (without the military reticle) to see if this would satisfy my particularly picky requirements. I was quite surprised and delighted that finally here was a binocular that did not cut any corners in its construction, quality of materials used, or in the design of the optics, at a price that was quite reasonable to boot. After having personally tested the performance of these binoculars on the night sky, I am convinced that they are just the ticket for the amateur who wants something better than the typical run-of-the-mill commodity binocular. To give you an idea of how well they work, I was able to easily see the stars of the Pleiades cluster before sunset while the sun was still above the horizon. The contrast was exceptional, showing all the members of this cluster as tiny pinpoints against a dark blue background. Cruising down the Milky Way under dark skies revealed countless stars, open clusters, globular and other deep sky wonders. Even the faint members of the Leo Galaxy cluster show up nicely in both the 10.5x and 15x versions. These binoculars feature high-tech multi-coatings on all lens and prism surfaces for highest possible light transmission and image contrast. All optical surfaces are manufactured to a high level of polish and accuracy to insure sharp images under all observing conditions. The use of oversize prisms insures excellent light throughput to the edges of the field-of-view. All-metal construction makes these binoculars rugged and stable, yet the rubber-armored covering makes them comfortable in your hands. They will not lose collimation over time or with rough handling. They are nitrogen-purged and waterproof and will not fog over internally, nor will the coatings on the internal optical surfaces degrade with time under any conditions. We have shown these binoculars to various advanced amateurs who know good optics when they see them. Even the most knowledgeable and discriminating individuals were impressed by the sharpness and inherent brightness of these binoculars. They are fully equal to big-name premium brands sold at much higher prices. These binoculars are made to Astro-Physics specifications and performance requirements, and we inspect each binocular to assure that these standards are met. " Roland Christen, July 2006"



 
Last edited:

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
As did I in 2019 when buying from Markus. My 16x70 is nice enough to want a couple more.
You can play 'spot your twin binocular' here:
;)
Markus, the owner of APM is great isn't he! How nice to buy optics from such a knowledgeable seller! Really even with international shipping his prices are pretty good, and you get your binoculars in less than a couple of days with UPS 2nd day shipping, and he removes the VAT tax if you live in the US. I HIGHLY recommend him especially if you want any big binoculars or scopes. APM is an excellent brand.

 

CharleyBird

Well-known member
Astro-Physics did market binoculars for a while under their name. I agree they were probably made by somebody else. There are still some around. You can tell they weren't made by AP by the price!

"Roland's comments about the previous version of these binoculars. As noted above the newer, current version provides a flatter field, are sharper at the edges and color fringing is reduced. :"For years, I have been searching for the perfect binocular...




Link to Kunming United Optics below (again), see the lower left image to compare, and the various specs including an 11x70

'spot your twin' ... their Waterproof BW22 8x32 looks the spit of my Nikon E11
 

elkcub

Silicon Valley, California
United States
I haven't been following the thread too closely, but is proper attention being given to the influence of FOV? We had an interesting discussion about Retinal Offset and Field of View Effects on Apparent Size and Depth years ago. Both factors play a role, so FOV should be equated if retinal offset is the primary concern.

Thanks for the link, Ed. I recalled that thread, but not all the details. I guess my view about the relative strengths of FOV and objective baseline on perceived magnification hasn’t changed much.

I didn’t have a DSLR at that point. It makes measuring true magnification much easier.
Hi Henry,

Forgive me for saying this, but If three factors are known to influence a perceptual phenomenon, it is necessary to systematically control two in order to draw valid conclusions about the third. In this instance (1) magnification, (2) retinal offset, and (3) field of view each affect perceived size and depth. So, to evaluate retinal offset, it's not only necessary to equalize magnification but also field of view. Otherwise, the results are potentially contaminated and misleading.

Ed
 

PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
I have decided to try another big porro that is ranked 1st place on Allbinos in the 8x56 category since I have never tried one. It is the Steiner Shadow Quest 8x56 Porro which is just an updated version of the Steiner Nighthunter 8x56.
Dennis, just a quick head's up that it may be unwise to post anything with reference to the "H" word, particularly as this subject is being discussed by the BF team.

I 've looked at the various links you provided - I know it is pure marketing from a plethora of reviewers but to suggest that a binocular such as this with IF or Super Sport Focusing is perfect / 5 stars / ideal for Birdwatching is as you know nonsense. To further promote these fabrications within a birdwatching community is almost scandalous!

Adorning you're posts with so many links to support you're enthusiasm and endorsements for a new found " Holy Grail " always comes across as desperate to me.... but I'd hate to miss anything juicy.

No doubt you will mention the 30 year warranty with this new purchase, unlike the APM that you conveniently skirted.

Anyhow, regards and I do look forward to the review.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top