Question re: Muscovy Duck in UK (3 Viewers)

[Earnest lad]

I recently spotted a Muscovy Duck in the wild at a large lake in Gtr Manchester.
As a keen birder I am always keen to get a lifer.
However I have some questions about this species that I would like to ask:

1. Can a sighting of this bird be considered a tick
2. I have heard that in the UK, the birds encountered in the wild are invariably "escapees or feral" birds. Does this mean that they might breed in the wild in the UK?
3. Is there a breeding population in the uK in the wild apart from escaped birds etc

If anyone can advise on this please I would be most grateful
Best wishes

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

1. No
2. Yes
3. No

They probably could have been reviewed and might have made the grade for Cat C, but that is a big jump to make and I believe the powers that be were not happy for that to happen, as it would have then afforded a non-native invasive species some protection that could have meant it would be difficult to eradicate them if they proved problematic in the future.

Long story short. It’s unlikely ever to happen. In fact it’s hard to imagine any new invasive species ever being given Cat C protection. Probably rightly so.

(Stands back and waits for someone to come up with a viable scenario) 😉

 

[Earnest lad]

1. No
2. Yes
3. No

They probably could have been reviewed and might have made the grade for Cat C, but that is a big jump to make and I believe the powers that be were not happy for that to happen, as it would have then afforded a non-native invasive species some protection that could have meant it would be difficult to eradicate them if they proved problematic in the future.

Long story short. It’s unlikely ever to happen. In fact it’s hard to imagine any new invasive species ever being given Cat C protection. Probably rightly so.

(Stands back and waits for someone to come up with a viable scenario) 😉

Thank you: from what you say it seems that although isolated breeding incidents may occur outside of captivity, no feral population that is self-sustaining exists. I must get to grips with the different categories in the british list. I have a download of the spreadsheet but it is somewhat complex for me.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

Thank you: from what you say it seems that although isolated breeding incidents may occur outside of captivity, no feral population that is self-sustaining exists. I must get to grips with the different categories in the british list. I have a download of the spreadsheet but it is somewhat complex for me.

What most birders tick are Cat A - most species you will see, Cat B is for birds that have not occurred since 1950, so tickable but there are few/no birders around that have any of those on their list, Cat C are established species from an ex-captive population. Tickable but hopefully a dwindling category as exotics really shouldn’t be allowed to get established. Cat D is a holding pen for species that could be wild but there is a doubt, they usually get moved to A when more evidence comes up, or E when it becomes clearer that they are escapes. Neither of those 2 categories are tickable to most birders.
Some birders of course do their own thing.

 

[MJB]

I recently spotted a Muscovy Duck in the wild at a large lake in Gtr Manchester.
As a keen birder I am always keen to get a lifer.
However I have some questions about this species that I would like to ask:

1. Can a sighting of this bird be considered a tick
2. I have heard that in the UK, the birds encountered in the wild are invariably "escapees or feral" birds. Does this mean that they might breed in the wild in the UK?
3. Is there a breeding population in the uK in the wild apart from escaped birds etc

If anyone can advise on this please I would be most grateful
Best wishes

Farm and feral birds in UK are mostly white with black bits, but wild birds in their natural range in the New World are mostly black with a few white bits. I've no idea what the colour arrangement is in the extensive distribution in the US (IUCN map).
MJB

 

[Earnest lad]

What most birders tick are Cat A - most species you will see, Cat B is for birds that have not occurred since 1950, so tickable but there are few/no birders around that have any of those on their list, Cat C are established species from an ex-captive population. Tickable but hopefully a dwindling category as exotics really shouldn’t be allowed to get established. Cat D is a holding pen for species that could be wild but there is a doubt, they usually get moved to A when more evidence comes up, or E when it becomes clearer that they are escapes. Neither of those 2 categories are tickable to most birders.
Some birders of course do their own thing.

That is most helpful information thank you. I am keen to get to grips with these categories with a view to amending my own life list. Sometimes it is difficult t for example when the bird was sighted in a foreign country. to find out what equivalent category for that country might be difficult. And also I noticed the British list has some species as more than one category. For example some ring-necked pheasants are captive bred and others might have bred in the wild etc etc. It is quite complicated

 

[Earnest lad]

Farm and feral birds in UK are mostly white with black bits, but wild birds in their natural range in the New World are mostly black with a few white bits. I've no idea what the colour arrangement is in the extensive distribution in the US (IUCN map).
MJB

Thank you: The one I saw recently I can share the photo I took.

 

[Jack Dawe]

I don't think I've ever seen a 100% pure Muscovy Duck in the UK - they all seem to be hybrids to some extent - so, even if the species were tickable (which it isn't) there's the question of what, exactly, it is that you would be ticking.

 

[raymie]

I don't think I've ever seen a 100% pure Muscovy Duck in the UK - they all seem to be hybrids to some extent - so, even if the species were tickable (which it isn't) there's the question of what, exactly, it is that you would be ticking.

What do you mean? The bird in this photo is clearly a pure Muscovy Duck, as are most captive birds. Hybrids involving Muscovy Duck are generally rare and usually occur with Mallards.

 

[Jack Dawe]

What do you mean? The bird in this photo is clearly a pure Muscovy Duck, as are most captive birds. Hybrids involving Muscovy Duck are generally rare and usually occur with Mallards.

No it isn't. A pure, south American, Muscovy Duck should show white only in the wing coverts.

Muscovy Duck Identification, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology

The strange, warty-faced Muscovy Duck causes confusion for some bird watchers, as it's very distinctive and quite commonly seen, yet does not appear in some field guides. Truly wild individuals are restricted to south Texas and points south, but domesticated versions occur in parks and farms...

www.allaboutbirds.org

 

[l_raty]

No it isn't. A pure, south American, Muscovy Duck should show white only in the wing coverts.

Wild, South American Muscovy Ducks also do not have such an extensive red face. But still, it's not a hybrid -- not a bird whose some recent ancestors belonged to another species. It's a domestic, but pure Muscovy Duck.

As raymie wrote, Muscovies are only known to hybridize with some regularity with Mallards (though some other odd combinations are known to have occurred in captivity). Hybrids look like this:

Muscovy Duck x Mallard

Muscovy Duck x Mallard hybrid, Union City Civic Center (California, USA), 29th April 2008 - copyright Doug Greenberg (photo ID: 2076) ...

birdhybrids.blogspot.com

They are (almost) always sterile, which means that (almost) only first generation hybrids (50% Muscovy, 50% Mallard) exist.

 

[Farnboro John]

An Aylesbury or a dipper duck is still a Mallard, as well. A farmyard goose is still a Greylag. That's not about hybridisation but domestication. Selective breeding for characters like more fat/bulk, size, even domesticity, tends to result in changes in shape and colour, normally sending things white.

John

 

[Swindon Addick]

1. No
2. Yes
3. No

They probably could have been reviewed and might have made the grade for Cat C, but that is a big jump to make and I believe the powers that be were not happy for that to happen, as it would have then afforded a non-native invasive species some protection that could have meant it would be difficult to eradicate them if they proved problematic in the future.

Long story short. It’s unlikely ever to happen. In fact it’s hard to imagine any new invasive species ever being given Cat C protection. Probably rightly so.

(Stands back and waits for someone to come up with a viable scenario) 😉

Being on the British List doesn't change the legal status of a breeding bird - a licence is still needed to destroy a nest unless the species appears on one of the general licences which are issued for recognised pest species. Natural England would take some persuading to issue a licence aimed at eradicating a species if it's firmly established, but that's to do with the fact of it being established, not the list status. Cat C status didn't save the Ruddy Ducks, and wouldn't save the Muscovy Duck population in Ely if someone were to put together a case for eradicating them. But destroying their nests remains just as illegal as any other species, not least because no-one wants to create a legal loophole that egg-collectors could try to use. We want egging to be completely illegal, as it is, not permitted if the bird is an invasive species.

In an ideal world there will be no new Cat C species because no new species will be allowed to escape in sufficient numbers to establish a self-sustaining breeding population. But the credibility of the List suffers if there are attempts to deny reality - if we were refusing to include ring-necked parakeets on Cat C that would look ridiculous. So if something else does get as widely established as that, I'd expect the reluctance to admit new species onto Cat C to be overcome eventually. Ridicule is a powerful motivator.

Of course, there are countries where the local "rules" say you can't tick a non-native species and the local "list" only has Cat A. That also works, and avoids this sort of debate.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

BOU quote regarding Cat C:

“In 1997, categorisation was revised to assist protection under national wildlife legislation, especially of naturalised species. Category C was expanded to allow species with different histories of introduction and naturalisation to be distinguished.”

A bird clearly has more protection under Cat C than being uncategorised. A special case had to be made in order to eradicate Ruddy Duck. Currently Muscovy Ducks can and have been reduced in number without too much hoo ha.

 

[Richard Prior]

BOU quote regarding Cat C:

“In 1997, categorisation was revised to assist protection under national wildlife legislation, especially of naturalised species. Category C was expanded to allow species with different histories of introduction and naturalisation to be distinguished.”

A bird clearly has more protection under Cat C than being uncategorised. A special case had to be made in order to eradicate Ruddy Duck. Currently Muscovy Ducks can and have been reduced in number without too much hoo ha.

The Hoo Ha, there’s another invasive species

 

[Dec147]

I've just seen a Muscovy Duck in Gerrards Cross, Bucks. 22nd March 2024

 

[Richard Prior]

I've just seen a Muscovy Duck in Gerrards Cross, Bucks. 22nd March 2024

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