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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Rolling Ball: what do I do?! (7 Viewers)

Hi Emma

In my opinion you own the best 32mm bino on the market at the moment. So if you can get used to rolling effect, hang onto them.
Another reason to keep them is Swarovski's excellent customer service and back up, if you ever need it.

When I got my SV's about two years ago and it took me about a week to get used to rolling globe effect.
Hopefully you will eventually get used to it, just focus on what your looking at and don't swap back and fourth with other bino's.

Hope that helps

Cheers Tim

Emma,

I agree with Tim above. I have had my 8x32 SV since July and it is simply marvelous. So, I hope you can adapt and get used to this effect you are experiencing. Because it is really a very nice (super really) binocular.

Good Luck
 
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My suggestion is to stick with it and see if you can get used to the view.

If you really can't, then if you don't like the Zeiss, check out the Leica Ultravid. I've not tried the 8x32 Leica UV, but the 8x42 were on par with the Swaro that I tried. Bought the Swaro for closer focusing capability and more comfortable eye-relief, but the Leica were very nice bins.

http://www.birdwatch.co.uk/channel/reviewitem.asp?c=11&review=2973
 
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Use the SV for a while and see what happens. Many, maybe most, get used to the distortion peculiarities of the binocular they use, and switching to a new one feels odd at first but then your brain adjusts. But some people don't get comfortable with certain kinds of views, and the SV clearly is more demanding in this than many. <snip>

So, definitely, give them and yourself more than just one or two days of time.

That's the best piece of advice I've seen in this thread. I'd add one thing: Just *use* the SV, don't compare it to other binoculars, and don't switch to other binoculars while you're trying to get used to it. Your brain has to "learn" to cope with the rolling ball effect, and switching back and forth makes this more difficult.

Hermann
 
That's the best piece of advice I've seen in this thread. I'd add one thing: Just *use* the SV, don't compare it to other binoculars, and don't switch to other binoculars while you're trying to get used to it. Your brain has to "learn" to cope with the rolling ball effect, and switching back and forth makes this more difficult.

Hermann

Hermann:

I agree with yours and Kimmos recommendations. You may need to spend some time with the SV, and see if it works out for you.
Hopefully you will be well pleased as many happy users report here.

Jerry
 

Wheeew.... that's what you call a distorted article. :t:

The pincushion was fine when the eyecups were held to my eyes (normal)... but when I slid them down my nose (atypical) to reduce the fov and cut off some distraction along the edge the center popped out like it was trying to poke my eyeballs.... really!!! Never experienced this before so a little freaky.

Is this what you guys are seeing when you're talking rolling ball? A center popping into you that induces movement when panning??? I've always seen a center that is neither concave nor convex... just parallel lines that bend up, down, right, left as you move off-center. Swarovski 32mm EL WB quite guilty with this and the Nikon SE being very minimal and much farther off center in this regard than most...

He...He.... going to hijack this back to an SE thread...:smoke:

CG
 
There is not a roof made that is as sharp as the SE.

You are like a broken record. What is the point on coming onto every 8x32 thread EVER and saying how much you like Nikon porros? I mean what EXACTLY is the point? Have you nothing better to do? It is SO irritating, just give it a rest as nobody other than you and a handful of other brand-toters actually cares.
Jonathan
 
Emma, WOW! just saw this and thought we'd better try and get this thing solved before 2012 is done and dusted !! 3:)

I think it is pointless going with other fine, but brick-like 8x32 bins such as the Nikon EDGII, HGL, or Leupold Gold Ring HD - they all weigh as much as full sized 42mm bins, and so since you are already negatively compromising on just a 4mm exit pupil as well, I would just rule them out. period.

As I see it your options are this:
1. Stick with the Swaro 8x32 SV. To do this (as many others have said) you will need to use the bin constantly (many, many times daily. You may have to push through any "difference" in view). Do not use any other bin. Do not go doing evaluations of optic parameters. Just look at viewing subjects and concentrate on them in the centre of the FOV! For now, avoid behaviours that help induce the "rolling ball phenomena" such as (looking, or worse still, darting your eyes to the edges of the field, panning at whatever distance causes you trouble AND at the speed that causes you trouble - this little acknowledged or discussed point is tied up with nauseous natural frequencies and motion sickness / spatial disorientation). DO NONE OF THESE!
If you follow this for anything from a few days to a few weeks, you should have your answer on whether you can neurally adjust and live with them.
Did you follow my original advice and check your susceptibility to low distortion bins by doing the experiments at Dr. Holger Merlitz's website?
If so good :t: - if not, naughty girl! |!|
It will help put your mind at rest one way or the other to have a quantifiable idea of your human visual distortion levels.
"Dr. Holger Meriltz has a helmholtz checkerboard test to determine your distortion levels ....." http://www.holgermerlitz.de/globe/test_distortion.html

2. If this fails, you can return /sell the SV's, and then pick up one of those 250 beautiful Simon King Limited Edition Zeiss 8x32 FL's with the lovely leather handbag-like acccessories, of which there may still be 400-odd left! ;)
Note - after torturing yourself with your very own SV-"Chicken" experiment, you may also need a period of time and adjustment with the FL's so that all seems right with the world again. :smoke:

3. You could plump for a Nikon 8x32 SE porro + a little Gore-Tex rainjacket for it, and plenty of silica gel just to be sure. You'll save a bundle, and it will do you for many years while you (like the rest of us!) wait for "them" to make that ultimate bin ..... :brains: if you don't trust your circumstances to have the money for that one day, then set up a little "Ultimate Dream Bin Trust Fund"

4. Try the (Made In Germany) MIG Minox 8x43 APO. It's light, bright, compact, with a nice focusing system, and because of the extra objective area will blow the 32mm's out of the water for the type of jungle /forest viewing you will be doing, considering your young age (hence wide eyed pupils!). I would think it would show up in the top 1/2 dozen or so bins when Allbino's finally test the APO version.

Now I'm going to throw something else in there for you to consider ......

I recently bought /tried /returned a Swift Audubon 8.5x44 ED porro. It weighed ~825grams, and yet I'll be st*ffed if it felt a gram over 600! much lighter than my other full size bins. It was like maybe it was filled with helium!
The point here is to try full size bins physically, that on paper you might rule out. Recalling that you will use a binocular harness, I'm going to suggest 2 more bins ......

i) Zeiss 8x42 HT, bright as the sun, nice ergo's, and a step up in sweet spot size, field flatness (but will be RB free for you), and colour saturation ....... from early reports a bit of a WOW! Perhaps something of a new benchmark - you can read more on the various HT threads.

ii) Swift Audubon 8.5x44 ED porro. A magic spec bin for the type of birding you will do with its porro clarity, extra wide field and great depth of field. You can read my full report starting here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2569242#post2569242
The caveat is that in the end I had to return them for a full refund due to some quality issues (internal cleanliness - specks), and was not prepared to play the half-way-round-the-world replacement lottery repeatedly in the hope of a good one. Sadly I miss it already =(
I would thoroughly recommend anyone in the USA with access to a store with a stock of them, to go and hands-on inspect all of them and see if you can find one to your satisfaction (ie. sans internal specks, and shoddy brightwork internal bracketry, and with a close focus distance as advertised)

So there you are Emma - a solution in there somewhere! Good Luck!


Chosun :gh:

P.S. people are giving me really strange looks, and wondering what on earth this BirdForum thing is??!! Time to go and rejoin the party ......
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY !!!!!!!! B :) :bounce: :hippy:
 
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Not being loyal to any brand and after 25 years off selling technical stuff I would like to add:

A binocular is the sum of all the factors you (literally) see. And its a compromise anyway.
So, in the end, if you dont like the balance of it, which you have in hand, sell it and move on.
As we say here (translated word by word): other mothers have fine daughters, too.
 
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Hi everyone,

Sorry if I am repeating here (as this reply is on the 'high end binocular advice needed' thread in the general bin forum).

I have just bought a pair of the SVs 8x32 - my choice was between the Zeiss Victory FL T 8x32 and the Swarovisions.

The Zeiss were great, but the SVs were just amazing.... enough that I got them. Whereas the Zeiss were like a very good pair of bins, the SVs were like a completely different animal. They are so sharp. The detail and colour is so clear and birds just looks stunning. It is a pleasure to look through them and I am looking at birds in a new way. They also feel like an extension of my eyes and the ergonomics are perfect for me.

I do have a big problem though. I think I am seeing 'rolling ball', or whatever kind of effect this is. Basically, it is like the middle of the view is popping out towards me - like the view is convex towards me. I didn't notice it looking out into the marsh, but as soon as I stepped outside to bird in an enclosed area of trees, I was very surprised at what I was seeing and it really bothered me. The effect is extreme if I look, for example, at a bird on a bird table and then pan down to one feeding on the ground.

I would like to ask those who have experienced this:-C: does it go away? Do you get used to it? Were you bothered by it at first, but not now? If I really think about just the bird and nothing else, then I can ignore it somewhat, but it still surprises me now and again.

The dilemma is: I really really do think, for me, that the difference between what I see through the Zeiss and what I see through the SVs (and the wow I get when I even look at pigeons!) is worth the extra cost. But, I am distraught by this disortion I am seeing. If I get the Zeiss, I will forever be thinking of the better SVs (for me). But I am concerned about this distortion :(

Any comments very welcome!!

The frustration!!!!

Emma
I had the Swarovision 8.5 x42's and like you said the optics were great but after a while RB got too me. I call it the "Circus Mirror" effect because that is what it felt like too me. I think if your subject to motion sickness it will always bother you. I had my SV's for months and I NEVER adjusted to it. Anyway I sold my SV's. I would rather deal with a little edge fuzziness. I have the SE 8x32, EII 8x30, EL 8x32 and the Leica Trinovids 8x20 now. You could go back to the regular 8x32 EL like I did. Make sure you get a newer model with the latest coatings. The Zeiss HT might be nice at twice the price but it is not going to have the great ergonomics of the EL open bridge design which I like. I have hearing about some focusers problems with the HT also on this forum with slack and uneven tension being the malady. To be honest the SV made me motion sick. I would NEVER buy a 42mm again either. NEVER. I like the weight and size of the 32mm's especially the EL's. Even the Zeiss 8x32 FL is chunky and not as comfortable as the EL and the Nikon 8x32 EDG is heavier and not as comfortable in the hand.
 
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I've seen "rolling ball" in every SV I've picked up, and that before I'd ever heard of the effect. It is VERY unsettling to me and enough that I won't consider a Swaro bin. Pity.

Personally I think Leica HD's are the high water mark of 8x32's, and yes I've had the Ziess 8x32 FL.
The regular EL model doesn't have RB.
 
As this thread has been resurrected I`ll stick in a chime for the Meopta 8x32, I`m going to try it again this month even though I have the FL, it was a gem, really good and I keep wishing I`d bought one.

I was`nt impressed with my first 32mm SV experience, in comtrast the Meopta blew me away, its an itch I need to scratch.

Give them a try if you can Emma, they may be perfect for you.
 
Reading through this thread - seems that everyone missed the fact that the OP, Emma had checked out. Reading her blog was quite interesting.....and I admit I am a bit curious how she sorted out her RB issue?
 
Reading through this thread - seems that everyone missed the fact that the OP, Emma had checked out. Reading her blog was quite interesting.....and I admit I am a bit curious how she sorted out her RB issue?

"checked out" ??!! :eek!: :eek!:

As in Id? :news: or :flyaway: or :)eek!:) :gn: ....... ?

Or maybe she's just busy digesting "the SV diet" as recommended ?


Chosun :gh:
 
3 possibilities here.

She has learned to live with the "Rolling Ball" or it doesn't bother her anymore; or she dumped the SV and got the Zeiss FL mentioned in the 1st thread.

Bob
 
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3 possibilities here.

She has learned to live with the "Rolling Ball" or it doesn't bother her anymore; or she dumped the SV and got the Zeiss FL mentioned in the 1st thread.

Bob

Or perhaps she's cottoned on to the facts that she now has a fine pair of binos with which to get on with her birding, and that a bino-forum such as this is populated with obsessive loonies like us among whom she'd rather not be counted;).
 
Just had cataract surgery in one eye yesterday morning, giving 20/30 vision this afternoon. The funny thing is, my depth perception at relatively close distances is kerflooey; it took some concentration to step over a snowbank this afternoon.

Without an advanced degree in any relevant specialty, I know with absolute certainty that within 2 weeks or less that that this misperception will be totally resolved by an adaptive response from the brain/eye structure.

The question is, for birders who can't adapt to rolling ball, what do they do when they have eye surgery for a cataract?

Mike
 
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