To Balance Rail or not? (1 Viewer)

[Thrupenney Bit]

Hi,
I have been fortunate to acquire a ATS 65 scope.
I use it on my Manfrotto tripod, a 290, with a 200 head on it that uses a quick release plate.
The tripod was purchased about 30 years ago, so although I've seen similar models that look 'updated', an exact model is no longer made.
The qr plate is 52mm x 42mm, and I've screwed it into the scope mount.

I carry the scope affixed to the tripod in a tripod backpack, and loop the scope case strap through a loop in the tripod backpack to prevent it quick releasing by accident whilst carrying.

I've seen that Swarovski make a Balance Rail.
Logic tells me that it will support the scope over a slightly longer area and possibly make the release plate/scope fixing point less stressed, though the tripod mount looks sturdy and the scope weights ~ 1750g.

Therefore, is a Balance Rail something to seriously consider from a stress relieving or scope security point of view or simply 'nice thing to have'?
Thoughts please!
best wishes
Q

 

[4John]

Hi,
I have been fortunate to acquire a ATS 65 scope.
I use it on my Manfrotto tripod, a 290, with a 200 head on it that uses a quick release plate.
The tripod was purchased about 30 years ago, so although I've seen similar models that look 'updated', an exact model is no longer made.
The qr plate is 52mm x 42mm, and I've screwed it into the scope mount.

I carry the scope affixed to the tripod in a tripod backpack, and loop the scope case strap through a loop in the tripod backpack to prevent it quick releasing by accident whilst carrying.

I've seen that Swarovski make a Balance Rail.
Logic tells me that it will support the scope over a slightly longer area and possibly make the release plate/scope fixing point less stressed, though the tripod mount looks sturdy and the scope weights ~ 1750g.

Therefore, is a Balance Rail something to seriously consider from a stress relieving or scope security point of view or simply 'nice thing to have'?
Thoughts please!
best wishes
Q

I carried a Swarovski STS80 on a Manfrotto B200 head (which I still have) on the end of a carbon fibre Manfrotto tripod on my shoulder for over 5 years birding without a problem. I did it because I saw many other birders doing the same thing before I bought the scope, and I have seen them do the same since then with heavier scopes. The original Manfrotto QR plate that came with the head has an anti-rotation pin which stops the scope spinning on the plate and coming unscrewed. Rather than looping the scope case strap through the loop in your back pack, you might want to run a paracord "safety line" from one of the case clip D rings to a hard point on the tripod instead. I have never heard of a scope foot breaking while attached to a QR plate - but someone on this forum might. Your ATS65 will be a little lighter than my STS80. IIRC the primary function of a balance rail is to allow you to slide the scope backwards and forwards until it balances i.e. it doesn't tilt upwards or downwards when you let go of it and the tilt lock on the head is off. It's not for reducing stress in the tripod foot, so I wouldn't spend money on one for that reason. In the nicest possible way I think you are being over-cautious, but hopefully others will chip in with their hopefully positive experiences to reassure you, so you don't just have to take my word for it

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Get a Manfrotto 128, no need for QRP and it is lockable - ideal for the ATS/ATM series.

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Thanks 4John.
I simply didn't know hence me asking, and thank you for your reassuring answer.

dwatsonbirder - thanks, I will look that up.
Cheers.
Q

 

[Peregrine Took]

Hello Q. I used a Gitzo GH2720QR head and plate with that scope. It's not a true fluid head (I never did video), but has a single kn0b to adjust both tilt and pan resistance. There is no need to balance a 65mm (or even 80mm) scope with a longer plate than the one that comes with it, because only a little resistance is required to hold a scope of that size in place. It can also be locked completely - good during transit, or when carrying over the shoulder.
.

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Ah OK thanks.
I really didn't know what to think when I kept seeing Balance Rails, hence asking the question.
My quick release plate holds it firmly in the head, and it is a fluid head, albeit an old one. The head does all I want, and the qr is firmly held. It also means I can flip it out of the head when popping it in the car so scope and tripod are separate.

I just didn't know if I was missing something thing obvious in a sort of 'duh' moment!
Sounds like I'll just carry on as I am 🙂

 

[Tringa45]

I second 4John's rejection of the balance rail. There's got to be compliance in the rear support (rubber armouring) so I can't see how it would be effective in relieving stress on the scope foot.

Quick release plates are IMO almost essential, not only because they speed up mounting and removal of the scope, but also because those actions without one would in the long term cause wear or fatigue in the shallow aluminium thread of the scope foot.

The ATS 65 is rather tail-heavy and needs a long rearward facing plate so that you can place the centre of gravity above the tilt axis for good static balance.
A counterbalance function helps too, of course. The Manfrotto MVH500AH is well regarded and would fulfil these requirements at a reasonable price.

Discard the thread adapter in the scope foot, btw, and fix the QR plate with the 3/8"x16 screw.

John

 

[wllmspd]

I use heads that thane the 501pl plate (came with the 500ah (spares widely available). It has space for as many lock screw holes as you want and an anti rotation pin as well. You can slide it back and forth in the head, which I use for my larger scopes to adjust the balance, so useful, but not really a balance rail.

Peter

 

[Peregrine Took]

The ATS 65 is rather tail-heavy and needs a long rearward facing plate so that you can place the centre of gravity above the tilt axis for good static balance.

As a former photographer and relative newcomer to 'video' or fluid heads (and with no intention of using such a head for video), I went around in circles figuring out what I needed in a head for birdwatching, until I eventually realised that a lot of what was written about video/fluid heads was (for me) a non-issue... not least when it came to static balance.

I don't (and never will) shoot video and for my use found the ATS 65 is tail-heavy only to the extent that it required minimal resistance from the head (Gitzo GH2720QR) to prevent it from tilting of it's own accord and achieve static balance. Such minimal level of resistance still enabled the scope to be moved relatively freely in all directions, including tracking birds in flight... only when the scope was tilted intentionally from about 45 degrees (upwards, more so than downwards) was a little more resistance required from the friction kn0b to keep the scope at the required angle. Again, for my use, I did not think the ATS needed any special kind of elongated plate in order to keep it balanced.

This is just my personal perspective and might be different when using a true fluid head (and scope) for video.
.

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

I think stories of certain scopes being tail-heavy or in need of any kind of extra-long plate can be exaggerated or misleading, or are specific to it's use and the type of head being used.

As a former owner of the actual scope in question, and not having used it for video, I found it tail-heavy only to the extent that it required minimal resistance from the head (Gitzo GH2720QR) to prevent it from tilting of it's own accord and achieve static balance. Such minimal level of resistance still enabled the scope to be moved in all directions... only when the scope was tilted intentionally from about 45 degrees was a little more resistance required from the friction kn0b to keep the scope at that angle.

This might all be different for a true fluid head and/or when using the scope for video.
.

Thanks for your thoughts.
I admit I've not noticed it particularly imbalanced when I've used it.
I've only managed to get out twice, once visiting a local hide and then last week a walk around our wetland for a bird count, it's intended use. It behaved impeccably and gave a lovely clear image. I can't wait to get out again!

As in my other threads recently, I'm returning after a huge layoff and trying to get a grip on how things have changed in my absence. I needed to canvass opinions about the Balance Rail, which this thread is doing well.
It has confirmed that.
I'll keep my head and qr plate and save my money!

 

[4John]

Discard the thread adapter in the scope foot, btw, and fix the QR plate with the 3/8"x16 screw.

John

Tringa,

Have you changed a QR plate screw from 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch and if so which QR plate do you have and how did you do it please ?

 

[Tringa45]

Tringa,

Have you changed a QR plate screw from 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch and if so which QR plate do you have and how did you do it please ?

Some manufacturers offer you the option when purchasing a QR plate and on some plates (e.g. Novoflex) it's possible to interchange 1/4" and 3/8" screws.

My ATM65 HD (apart from the magnesium body identical to ATS65) in addition to the balance issue has a very shallow blind 3/8" female thread, so that some screws go on block before the plate is clamped.
At no extra cost Berlebach repositioned a 5 mm anti-rotation pin and shortened the screw on a 117 mm plate. It's been on the scope untouched for about 10 years.

John

 

[Jason Bugay Reyes]

Balance Rail is a good addition too if you use it for digiscoping with smartphone / dslr / mirrorless cameras in the future.

Both of my scopes required balance rail and long plate when I mounted it on the Manfrotto 502 video head and on the Swarovski Optik PTH head. This also applies with the using long plate with my 300mm 2.8 VR II lens plus dslr.

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Balance Rail is a good addition too if you use it for digiscoping with smartphone / dslr / mirrorless cameras in the future.

Both of my scopes required balance rail and long plate when I mounted it on the Manfrotto 502 video head and on the Swarovski Optik PTH head. This also applies with the using long plate with my 300mm 2.8 VR II lens plus dslr.

I can believe the rail provides a more stable platform for digiscoping as you suggest. Certainly at the moment I'm just interested in using my scope for looking and identifying birds. Its a new thing for me to be using good optics simply to watch.
Perhaps after a while I might investigate such things and then consider creating a more stable platform if necessary, but at present I'm just enjoying the simple pleasure of looking!