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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Why do Leicas have more CA than Swarovski or Zeiss? (1 Viewer)

Leica seems to be ok where they are with their optics, they sell enough to the public. Additionally there are choices from the other manufacturers Swarovski, Zeiss and Nikon. The key is to have a few from each manufacturer, so a nice mixture of views. CA is not a major problem for many viewers outside of BF who own Leicas.
Very well said.... most people don't know anything about it.
 
I would stay with 8x. In reality, you can see more than with a 10x because the view is so much steadier. That is the trouble with a $3000 binocular. If you don't use it a lot you feel the money is just wasted, whereas, with a $500 binocular it is not such a big deal.

Well, it all depends on if you are able to hold the binocular still enough. Ignorant users think higher magnification is better and junk binoculars are sold with unuseable magnification as selling argument.
Even Nikon aim their market to ignorant users by offering 8-24x25 model. Not only that zoom binoculars are not recommended at all. But it had been much more useful with 4-12x. 4-12x25 actually had been interesting with good low light performance in a compact.

10x is still not a very extreme magnification and is used among many experienced binocular users, even at this forum.
I usually prefer 5-8x but I found NL Pure with head support providing a very stable hold. I think 8x is stable like usual 6x. And 10x will be about as stable as usual 8x.
Therefore NL Pure is the binocular I think makes it worth to add a high grade high magnification model to the collection.
 
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Are the blackout problems in the M7 due to the eye cups being too short for the eye relief? Does the Curio really have better image quality than the M7? The M7 has quite an aperture advantage over the Curio. That surprises me. I am sure the M7 is more comfortable to use. How about CA in the M7 and the Curio. Do you see any in the center? You just need to hit the gym more often to carry that SLC 8x56 or get a harness. :)
I am not sure the problem with the monarch 7 8x30, but it gives blackouts when I use second eyecup position. If I extend the eyecups fully, I can’t see the whole field of view and I feel it reduces the clarity as well. I used to use some third party winged eyecups to avoid that problem however I didn’t completely solve the issue. Now with over time I got used to however M7 is getting less and less use because I have other options to use. Anyway I believe it is a fine binocular in its price range.

I prefer the image quality of Curio more than the M7 8x30. I asked one of my colleagues to compare both and she had the same opinion. Of course as you said the M7 8x30 has better eye comfort especially for one wear eyeglasses. I find the contrast, clarity, and color reproduction of Curio is far superior than the M7. Personally I believe the color and contrast are better in Curio even than than the NL 8x42. I remember one of BF members also had a similar opinion.

I see CA in both binoculars. However, M7 shows more CA compared to the trace amount of CA in Curio. However, non of them bothers me for the CA problem. I only have CA problems with UV 10x32 HD, Canon 12x36 is iii, and SFL 10x40. Especially when panning the SFL 10x40 shows CA. Canon is the worst for CA control. UV represent the middle ground between SFL and Canon.

I would also really like to own and use a SLC 8x56 or 10x56. I believe they produce best eye comfort, image quality, and twilight performance. However, they are two bulky to use. I would only like to have one to use mounted on a tripod.
 
Dennis can you explain why you have issues with CA in Noctivids and Ultravids , yet have no problem with the CA in the SFL? Also what about all the CA in those 56 Conquests? Just curious. πŸ€”

Ouch, the x56 Conquests.... 🌈🌈🌈🌈 πŸ˜„ "the CA generator", only beaten by some of the Svbony roofs
 
Don't you think it would be nice if Leica did some updates, or would you rather have them maintain their status quo? I wonder if it would be as easy as a glass upgrade to improve the CA control on Leicas or if it would take a design change that might change the characteristics of Leicas that everybody likes. Perhaps use 2 ED elements per objective, like Zeiss and Kowa do instead of just one.
I was thinking the same thing could be done for the SFL and the Conquest. I wonder why they have more CA than most other Zeiss and some Leica’s. Maybe Zeiss doesn’t care to much about CA. I wish Zeiss would update and modernize their designs with better glass so they can have that Leica image quality. But then it could change the characteristics of the binoculars. 😜🀭
 
As far as I know, Zeiss only uses an FL lens and Kowa Genesis uses an FL and ED lens.

What IMO always gets mixed up here is that Zeiss doesn't use Fluorite crystal (CaF2) but rather fluoride glasses, glasses with an admixture of fluorides.


"In observation optics (binoculars, spotting scopes and rifle scopes), the abbreviation "FL" stands for types of glass containing fluoride ions (FL), which ensure higher-contrast, sharper images with significantly reduced color fringes. Glasses containing fluoride ions are the highest quality subgroup of ED glasses."

Kowa states that they use a fluoride lens and a fluorite lens, IMO I think there are two fluoride lenses, conventionally simply labeled as ED glass.

The new Leica's (HD+ and Noctivid) also use a lens containing fluoride (Fluor-Schott)

Fluorite is a crystal that is very expensive and difficult to process, shatters easily due to its crystalline structure, so binocular manufacturers practically always use glass containing fluoride.

Andreas
 
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Well, it all depends on if you are able to hold the binocular still enough. Ignorant users think higher magnification is better and junk binoculars are sold with unuseable magnification as selling argument.
Even Nikon aim their market to ignorant users by offering 8-24x25 model. Not only that zoom binoculars are not recommended at all. But it had been much more useful with 4-12x. 4-12x25 actually had been interesting with good low light performance in a compact.

10x is still not a very extreme magnification and is used among many experienced binocular users, even at this forum.
I usually prefer 5-8x but I found NL Pure with head support providing a very stable hold. I think 8x is stable like usual 6x. And 10x will be about as stable as usual 8x.
Therefore NL Pure is the binocular I think makes it worth to add a high grade high magnification model to the collection.
I didn't find the head support helped that much with steadying the NL. In fact, I found it uncomfortable and irritating to have it resting against my forehead. I tried reading resolution charts with it and without it, and it made very little difference. Don't underestimate 8x in comparison to 10x.

8x has better DOF, a bigger FOV and you can hold it a LOT steadier. The steadier you hold a binocular the more resolution you will have, and unless you can hold that 10x rock steady you will have more resolution with the 8x.
 
I am not sure the problem with the monarch 7 8x30, but it gives blackouts when I use second eyecup position. If I extend the eyecups fully, I can’t see the whole field of view and I feel it reduces the clarity as well. I used to use some third party winged eyecups to avoid that problem however I didn’t completely solve the issue. Now with over time I got used to however M7 is getting less and less use because I have other options to use. Anyway I believe it is a fine binocular in its price range.

I prefer the image quality of Curio more than the M7 8x30. I asked one of my colleagues to compare both and she had the same opinion. Of course as you said the M7 8x30 has better eye comfort especially for one wear eyeglasses. I find the contrast, clarity, and color reproduction of Curio is far superior than the M7. Personally I believe the color and contrast are better in Curio even than than the NL 8x42. I remember one of BF members also had a similar opinion.

I see CA in both binoculars. However, M7 shows more CA compared to the trace amount of CA in Curio. However, non of them bothers me for the CA problem. I only have CA problems with UV 10x32 HD, Canon 12x36 is iii, and SFL 10x40. Especially when panning the SFL 10x40 shows CA. Canon is the worst for CA control. UV represent the middle ground between SFL and Canon.

I would also really like to own and use a SLC 8x56 or 10x56. I believe they produce best eye comfort, image quality, and twilight performance. However, they are two bulky to use. I would only like to have one to use mounted on a tripod.
Interesting that you prefer the Curio even over the NL. When I had the Curio and the NL 8x42, I came to the same conclusion. The Canon 12x36 IS III does have a lot of CA, probably some of the worst I have seen. That and lack of contrast is a big reason I sold mine. The SLC is like a big comfortable couch. It is very comfortable to use, but as you say a little on the heavy side.
 
As far as I know, Zeiss only uses an FL lens and Kowa Genesis uses an FL and ED lens.

What IMO always gets mixed up here is that Zeiss doesn't use Fluorite crystal (CaF2) but rather fluoride glasses, glasses with an admixture of fluorides.


"In observation optics (binoculars, spotting scopes and rifle scopes), the abbreviation "FL" stands for types of glass containing fluoride ions (FL), which ensure higher-contrast, sharper images with significantly reduced color fringes. Glasses containing fluoride ions are the highest quality subgroup of ED glasses."

Kowa states that they use a fluoride lens and a fluorite lens, IMO I think there are two fluoride lenses, conventionally simply labeled as ED glass.

The new Leica's (HD+ and Noctivid) also use a lens containing fluoride (Fluor-Schott)

Fluorite is a crystal that is very expensive and difficult to process, shatters easily due to its crystalline structure, so binocular manufacturers practically always use glass containing fluoride.

Andreas
I realize that Zeiss uses glass embedded with fluorides, which is different from fluorite crystal. I think Beth hit the nail on the head when she said Kowa and Zeiss use 2 ED elements per objective, and Leica only uses one. The Zeiss FL and the Kowa Prominar both have almost no CA in the center, and perhaps that is part of the reason.
 
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Horses for courses, I suppose.

Are you sure that's how resolution works? πŸ€”
Resolution increases if you use an IS binocular or put a binocular on a tripod. I believe the difference was as high as 30% between hand held versus IS or tripod mounted. Even if you can only hold an 8x 20% steadier than a 10x your resolution will increase dramatically.

 
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I didn't find the head support helped that much with steadying the NL. In fact, I found it uncomfortable and irritating to have it resting against my forehead. I tried reading resolution charts with it and without it, and it made very little difference. Don't underestimate 8x in comparison to 10x.

8x has better DOF, a bigger FOV and you can hold it a LOT steadier. The steadier you hold a binocular the more resolution you will have, and unless you can hold that 10x rock steady you will have more resolution with the 8x.
So you mean like an 8x32 would have more resolution than an 8x56 because you can hold Steadier. πŸ˜†
 
I know resolution increases if you use an IS binocular or put a binocular on a tripod. I believe the difference was as high as 30% between hand held versus IS or tripod mounted.
That's not really what resolution means, at least as far as I know β€” although obviously the steadier, the better as far as viewing goes.
 
I didn't find the head support helped that much with steadying the NL. In fact, I found it uncomfortable and irritating to have it resting against my forehead. I tried reading resolution charts with it and without it, and it made very little difference. Don't underestimate 8x in comparison to 10x.

8x has better DOF, a bigger FOV and you can hold it a LOT steadier. The steadier you hold a binocular the more resolution you will have, and unless you can hold that 10x rock steady you will have more resolution with the 8x.

There are different opinions about the headrest.
About steadiness I would like to say not even 5x is possible to hold rocksteady without support or stabilization. But to a certain level of shakiness the eyes are able to compensate for the movements, which speed and magnitude increase proportional to the magnification. It's when the eyes cannot do it anymore the problem occurs.
It seems that you mean all users of 10x binoculars without stabilization have been fooled to choose too high magnification. I don't think it's the case.
 
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That's not really what resolution means, at least as far as I know β€” although obviously the steadier, the better as far as viewing goes.
I really think 10x is overrated in what you can actually see versus 8x because you are shaking more. Objects are bigger with 10x, but they are moving around a lot more, so your resolution is lower. Essentially, 10x users are fooled into thinking they are seeing more, but they are not.

 
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That's not really what resolution means, at least as far as I know β€” although obviously the steadier, the better as far as viewing goes.
"Increasing the magnification of binoculars or telescopes can decrease their resolution. Resolution is a measure of the ability of a lens to distinguish fine details in an image. As the magnification of a lens increases, the image becomes larger, but the size of the individual details remains the same. This can make the details appear less distinct and can decrease the overall resolution of the image. Additionally, as the magnification increases, the field of view decreases, making it harder to locate and track objects. Also, at high magnification, the image can become shaky due to the movement of the observer's hands, which affects the final resolution of the image. Some high-end binoculars or telescopes have a mechanism to mitigate this problem called image stabilization."

 
I really think 10x is overrated in what you can actually see versus 8x because you are shaking more. Objects are bigger with 10x, but they are moving around a lot more.

Here you are to a certain level right. Using binoculars is pretty similar to shooting. It's about relaxing and technique. Ignorant and unexperienced users don't understand how to hold the binocular in best way and they often shake a lot. They should use lower power.
An experienced binocular user has trained to relax and hold the binocular as good as possible to get a steady view. And like with shooting you can train to be more steady. I don't doubt some can effectively use 12x binoculars without support.
 
Wait, then how can I seemingly better-perceive fine details at 10X than at 8X?

And if my eyes are lying to me and resolution truly is inversely related to magnification, then surely 1X or even 0.5X should provide superior resolving power, no? Maybe we have this whole thing literally backwards, and have been looking through the wrong end of our binoculars the whole time. πŸ€”
 

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