Zeiss: Collection of cross-section and cutaway images (1 Viewer)

[Holger Merlitz]

This is an amazing piece of optics - thanks so much for presenting all these details about that Turret!

Cheers,
Holger

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Holger,

Maybe it's the sort of 'Retro Porro' that Leica should be considering? (the possibility of one being hinted at in the recent thread: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=386132)
- a 19th century Duovid!


John

 

[John A Roberts]

Early Zeiss Roof Prism Binoculars

In addition to offering a variety of compact Porro prism designs as outlined in post #80, Zeiss also offered a similar variety of roof prism designs
- and also a series of x50 models primarily for military use
see the second table at: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3919136&postcount=5


As can be seen from the table there were in effect several series:
A) Compact/ Wide objectives/ Sprenger-Leman prisms - from before WWI

B) Compact/ Inboard objectives/ Sprenger-Leman prisms - from the 1920’s

C) Compact/ Inboard objectives/ Moller prism variations - again from the 1920’s

D) Large x50/ In-line objectives / Abbe-Koenig prisms - both before and after WWI

With both B) and C) there are a relatively large number of images showing how the prisms are mounted
This is because of the flat main body is fitted with a removable cover plate

For some information about the early use of roof prisms in binoculars see posts #33 and #34 at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=378895&page=2

- - -
A) Compact/ Wide objectives/ Sprenger-Leman prisms
With these models, Zeiss provided enhanced stereoscopic viewing in a designs that could be folded flat

• Teleplast
See both:
- an image of the Teleplast from Hans Braakhuis' site at: http://www.hansbraakhuis.nl/Nikon/Nikon.html
(go down the left hand side of the page to 'verrekijkers' then across to the right and click on 'Mikron verrekijkers’), and
- the optical construction from Walter Besenmatter’s 7.5 MB presentation ’Die Moller-Zeiss-Story’ at: http://home.europa.com/~telscope/temp/Besenmatter.2006.M%F6ller-Zeiss.do.not.duplicate.pdf
n.b. the eyepiece comprises 4 elements in 2 groups, in a 3 and 1 configuration

Information and additional images, including those of the prism, can be found on the Vacani’s site at: http://www.binoculars-cinecollectors.com/html/body_unusual_page4.html


• Stenor
See:
- an image of the Stenor from Frank Weissörtel at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/franksbinoculars/35861406743/in/photostream/, and
- two images of the prism, both in place and removed (it’s from a Japanese site, but the link seems to have disappeared)
(also see some additional images that I recently posted, including one showing the Stenor folded to fit in it's case,
at: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3958222&postcount=91)


• Experimental Dual Magnification Teleplast
The image is from: https://www.amuseum.de/physik/brillen/exh98_99/81.jpg
It seems to be from an article by Beez and Seeger, see the Vacani's comments at: http://www.binoculars-cinecollectors.com/html/body_unusual_page4.html


continued . . .

 

[John A Roberts]

Additional images for above and below . . .

 

[John A Roberts]

B) Compact/ Inboard objectives/ Sprenger-Leman prisms

• Stenotar
The Stenotar is the Stenor, without the additional folding arms (and the objectives inboard instead of outboard)
See an image of it from Ted Brink's Collecting Military Binoculars site at: https://www.freewebs.com/tedbrink/germanystenotar.htm
And images of the Stenotar with the body cover removed/ prism in place, and with the prism removed, can be found at the previous link from the Vacani’s


• Theatis
The Theatis has a more streamlined wedge shaped body. And unlike the previous models it is also centre focus
See the image from: http://blog.livedoor.jp/forrest1437/archives/70262977.html
The site also includes many images showing in detail the disassembly and reassembly of the Theatis

- - - -

C) Compact/ Inboard objectives/ Moller Prism variations
These later models are all centre focus
The prism designs of Moller and Zeiss are all externally similar, but vary as to the reflection pattern
And in effect they are all less efficient versions of the Hensoldt Penta as they have 6 reflections rather than 4
See posts #33 and #34 at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=378895&page=2
(in the early 1950’s Moller patented a 4 reflection version of the Hensoldt Penta, see page 37 and on of Besenmmater’s presentation, cited in post #83)

• Telita
The Telita has a squared body similar to that of the Stenor and Stenotar. See the image from: https://www.flickr.com/photos/czjena/33434355453/in/photostream/


• Telita II
In contrast, the Telita II has the same style of wedge shaped body as both the Theatis and the Turita


• Turita
The 8x24 Turita is larger than the 6x18 Telita II

Frank (known as LPT on Bird Forum) has provided a set of 8 images of a unit once owned by Ernest Hemingway at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/7027520571/in/photostream/
There are descriptions accompanying the images, which include details of the prism assembly - see 3 of the images
And Walter Besenmatter has provided a ray diagram showing the optical construction, again see the link at post #83


continued . . .

 

[John A Roberts]

D) Large x50/ In-line objectives/ Abbe-Koenig prisms
Superficially these appear similar to many other large military style binoculars using Porro Type II prisms, which have so-called ‘tuna can’ shaped prism housings
However, due to significantly greater length of the A-K prisms, the prism housings are also significantly longer


A set of images of the 7x50 can be found at: http://www.historicacollectibles.co...s-7x-mod-noctar-kaiserliche-marine-circa-1915, see 2 from the series
More images and detail can be found on Johann Leichtfried’s site Fernglas Museum at: http://www.fernglasmuseum.at/museum/zeiss_df_7mal_abbe_koenig/zeiss_df_7mal_abbe_koenig.html

Images and detail about the 12x50 are also to be found on Johann’s site at: http://www.fernglasmuseum.at/museum/zeiss_df_12mal_abbe_koenig/zeiss_df_12mal_abbe_koenig.html, see an image

And Frank Weissörtel has images and information about the 10x50 model, starting at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/franksbinoculars/38014480714, again see an image


As can be seen, all 3 have:
- a similar external construction, and
- a slight degree of offset of the objective and eyepiece axes, which is minimised by using an objective above eyepiece orientation


John


p.s. Johann has reviews of both the Zeiss 12x50 A-K and it's contemporary Porro Type II version. So for comparison see the combined photo

 

[LPT]

D) Large x50/ In-line objectives/ Abbe-Koenig prisms
Superficially these appear similar to many other large military style binoculars using Porro Type II prisms, which have so-called ‘tuna can’ shaped prism housings
However, due to significantly greater length of the A-K prisms, the prism housings are also significantly longer


A set of images of the 7x50 can be found at: http://www.historicacollectibles.co...s-7x-mod-noctar-kaiserliche-marine-circa-1915, see 2 from the series
More images and detail can be found on Johann Leichtfried’s site Fernglas Museum at: http://www.fernglasmuseum.at/museum/zeiss_df_7mal_abbe_koenig/zeiss_df_7mal_abbe_koenig.html

Images and detail about the 12x50 are also to be found on Johann’s site at: http://www.fernglasmuseum.at/museum/zeiss_df_12mal_abbe_koenig/zeiss_df_12mal_abbe_koenig.html, see an image

And Frank Weissörtel has images and information about the 10x50 model, starting at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/franksbinoculars/38014480714, again see an image


As can be seen, all 3 have:
- a similar external construction, and
- a slight degree of offset of the objective and eyepiece axes, which is minimised by using an objective above eyepiece orientation


John

This is what its A-K prism unit looks like: https://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/14567076783/in/photolist-o8qL2h-nSYpDo-ocf5qg-pPD3c4

 

[John A Roberts]

Thanks for that Frank,

. . . somehow I'd missed your Flickr posts on this early Zeiss model


John

 

[Swissboy]

………...D) Dual Magnification - Turret Model
Prior to WWI, Zeiss also introduced a dual magnification 5x and 10x model with a 25mm objective

.........….John

In the late 1960s, Bausch & Lomb had a similar turret system that could be attached to their Balscope telescope. There was space for three eyepieces on that rather large disc. It was before decent zooms became available.

 

[Holger Merlitz]

Leica Noctivid

After this wonderful excursion into history, I am now returning to a modern time binocular, a Leica Noctivid (though I don't know whether 8x42 or 10x42).

Cheers,
Holger

 

[John A Roberts]

CZJ EDF 7x40 Roof Prism Binoculars

As I indicated in post #48, there were a number of Zeiss models that I still needed to post about, and I’ve finally gotten around to the last of them - the EDF 7x40

As there’s a lot of information about the EDF that relates in some way to its optics, but may not be of interest to many, I decided to place it all in a seperate thread,
at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=387041


- - - -
Time to Rename & Move this Thread?

Finally, this is probably a good time to give this thread a more accurate name and move it to the Zeiss forum



John

 

[jan van daalen]

After this wonderful excursion into history, I am now returning to a modern time binocular, a Leica Noctivid (though I don't know whether 8x42 or 10x42).

Cheers,
Holger

When you enlarge the pic you'll see it's a 10 times.

Jan

 

[Holger Merlitz]

When you enlarge the pic you'll see it's a 10 times.

Jan

Sharp eyes, Jan, now I found it, too!

Thanks,
Holger

 

[LPT]

Attached is a view of the Leitz Amplivid 6 x 24 taken from Fan Tao's 2004 Wide Angle presentation (page 8): https://web.archive.org/web/20090424202300/http://home.att.net/~binofan/WABino.pdf

Note the 4 lens/7(?) element eyepiece. Does anyone know what type of eyepiece this is?

I am currently servicing an Amplivid for a friend and have also attached some pictures of its mirror/prism unit.

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Frank (post #94),

Firstly, what a great find with Fan Tao’s presentation!
And thanks for some actual photographs of the prism/ mirror assembly

I’ve attached two images from a 1958 Leitz flyer. The first makes the eyepiece construction clear: 7 elements in 4 groups i.e. 2/ 1/ 2 / 2
They're from that great resource of Mark’s at Miniature Binoculars: http://www.miniaturebinoculars.com/part1/Page2725.htm
(for a list of catalogues etc. go to the bottom of the panel on the right hand side of the page)

Also an image from the US patent, and the patent

And for others, Arek has posted in detail about the Amplivid at Allbinos: https://www.allbinos.com/index.php?art=166


John

 

[jan van daalen]

Sharp eyes, Jan, now I found it, too!

Thanks,
Holger

Mwah, the pic is two by one and a half meters on our event car. That helpedB

 

[John A Roberts]

CORRECTION - Identification of x42 Victory FL Images in posts #23 and #38

To stress the implication of Gary’s observation in post #69 that the 8x42 has a larger aperture to the rear lens of the eyepiece than the 10x42:

- in post #23 the 2nd image is of a 10x42

- in post #38 the 2nd image is of a 10x42 (the same image as above), and

- in post #38 the 1st, 3rd and 4th images are all of 8x42’s

i.e. the images in post #38 are the opposite of what was originally stated


John

 

[John A Roberts]

Zeiss 7x50 U.D.F. Porro II - Post #71

The image that Holger posted can be found on Albrecht Köhler’s site at: https://web.archive.org/web/20181221043422/http://www.akoehler.de/

Click on ‘UDF 7x50’ in the left hand panel
You can then open both a PDF of the image, and one of a ray trace analysis of the the measured aberrations (see below)


Other Ray Trace Analyses
They are also available for the following (again click on the buttons in the left hand panel):
- Deltar 8x40

- UDF 8x60, and

- Nobilem 8x50B


n.b. all the ray traces were done in 2005, and include a diagram of the optical construction


John


p.s. while the 7x50 cross-section image shows a 4 element eyepiece in a 2-2 configuration, the ray trace diagram shows 3 elements in a 1-2 arrangement!
I've attached a copy of the cross-section with the contrast adjusted to make the construction clearer

 

[John A Roberts]

Turmon 8x21 Monocular

As with many other late 19th century/ early-to-mid 20th century manufacturers, Zeiss routinely offered monocular versions of their regular Porro prism binoculars
The convention was to use what would have been the right hand barrel of the binocular

At the time, those looking for a highly portable optic could choose between something such as a 6x30 or 8x30 monocular,
or a binocular with much smaller objectives such as those referred to in posts #80 and on

In contrast, the Turmon is a purpose designed folding Porro prism monocular that was introduced in 1921, and is still in production by Noblex!
see: https://noblex-germany.com/index.ph...ptics/compact-binoculars/115-noblex-mono-8x21
It folds flat for storage and carry, but as with other Porro prisms optics when used, the two prisms need to be at right angles to correctly orientate the image (see the photo below)

Two images of the earlier Docter branded version, compared to various current small binoculars can be seen at: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3943561&postcount=7

The cross-section can be found on Albrecht Köhler’s site at: https://web.archive.org/web/20181221043422/http://www.akoehler.de/ (again click on the button in the left hand panel)
n.b. the objective prism is considerably larger than the ocular one


John


p.s. the Monokulare/ Monoculars site has a page showing variations of the original CZJ version, along with various accessories at: http://www.monocular.info/turmon.htm

 

[wdc]

Attached is a view of the Leitz Amplivid 6 x 24 taken from Fan Tao's 2004 Wide Angle presentation (page 8): https://web.archive.org/web/20090424202300/http://home.att.net/~binofan/WABino.pdf

I've not seen a mirror prism arrangement like that before. I read through Fan Tao's presentation. I found his comments about eye relief, from 16 years ago, to be reassuring, whether his specifications are exact or not.

"Often, a fine optical design is handicapped by a
mechanical design that reduces the usable eye relief with deep fixed eyecups. In my experience, for comfortable viewing, the requirements for usable eye relief are:
Without eyeglasses: 10mm minimum
Using eyeglasses: 20mm minimum
Extended eye relief contributes greatly to the sense of wide angle peripheral vision. "

In the context of his paper, he's also talking about a wide angle AFOV >65°.

-Bill