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Robins are flycatchers? (1 Viewer)

Treatement of Luscinia s. namnetum and L. s. azuricolis

Hi,

Clements checklist (2009) recognized Luscinia s. namnetum as a subspecies; on the other hand van den Berg (Dutch Birding bird names, 2010) recognized the Iberian L. s. azuricolis. Johnsen et al. (2006) showed that azuricolis is well differentiated genetically from all other subspecies/forms. namnetum also well differentiated from all other forms. How they came to this treatment or have I missed something?

Johnsen et al. (2006). Molecular and phenotypic divergence in the bluethroat (Luscinia svecica) subspecies complex. Molecular Ecology 15: 4033–4047.

regards,
Mohamed
 
Bluethroat

Acrocephalus said:
Clements checklist (2009) recognized Luscinia s. namnetum as a subspecies; on the other hand van den Berg (Dutch Birding bird names, 2010) recognized the Iberian L. s. azuricolis. Johnsen et al. (2006) showed that azuricolis is well differentiated genetically from all other subspecies/forms. namnetum also well differentiated from all other forms. How they came to this treatment or have I missed something?
Click to expand...
Van den Berg (Dutch Birding) identifies four 'distinct' ssp groups ('sometimes considered specifically distinct'):

  • L s svecica 'Red-spotted Bluethroat', presumably including volgae, pallidogularis, abbotti, saturatior, kobdensis, przevalskii
  • L s cyanecula 'White-spotted Bluethroat', presumably including namnetum
  • L s magna 'Turkish Bluethroat' (unspotted), presumably monotypic
  • L s azuricollis 'Spanish Bluethroat' (unspotted), presumably monotypic
So namnetum is probably recognised by DB, but treated as a ssp of the cyanecula group.

Richard
 
Last edited:
Bluethroat

Daniel Philippe said:
But some of these taxa (such as abbotti) have a white spot, haven't they ?
Click to expand...
Collar 2005 (HBW10): "abbotti is like nominate, but breast spot smaller, bill longer". [Nominate is red-spotted.]

Grimmett et al 1998 (Birds of the Indian Subcontinent), & derivative titles: plates clearly show adult male abbotti with red spot.

MacKinnon & Phillipps 2000 (Birds of China): "Races vary in size of red throat spot (smallest in abbotti)".

Rasmussen & Anderton 2005 (Birds of S Asia): "abbotti as nominate but star smaller and bill longer". But plate depicts male abbotti with white spot...

Richard :h?:
 
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'Orange-spotted Bluethroat'

Russlac123 said:
I ve heard of Orange-spotted Bluethroat, do you know what ssp does that one belongs to?
Click to expand...
At least five such birds have been observed in the Netherlands, and were discussed and illustrated in a recent article:

  • Ebels & van Duivendijk 2010. 'Orange-spotted Bluethroats'. Birding World 23(7): 301-304.
They've generally been presumed to be extreme variants of cyanecula, but the article also questions whether they could be pallidogularis or volgae ('said to be intermediate in appearance between White-spotted and nominate Red-spotted'), or a little-known morph, or hybrids between Red-spotted and White-spotted, or even extreme male-like female Red-spotteds...

Richard
 
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Richard Klim said:
Collar 2005 (HBW10): "abbotti is like nominate, but breast spot smaller, bill longer". [Nominate is red-spotted.]

Grimmett et al 1998 (Birds of the Indian Subcontinent), & derivative titles: plates clearly show adult male abbotti with red spot.

MacKinnon & Phillipps 2000 (Birds of China): "Races vary in size of red throat spot (smallest in abbotti)".

Rasmussen & Anderton 2005 (Birds of S Asia): "abbotti as nominate but star smaller and bill longer". But plate depicts male abbotti with white spot...

Richard :h?:
Click to expand...

What about this nice photo ?
 
Luscinia svecica abbotti

Daniel Philippe said:
What about this nice photo ?
Click to expand...
The caption seems to explain the apparently conflicting literature:

  • "The race abbotti... occurs in two forms with white or rufous 'stars' (throat patches)".
Richard ;)

PS: Re-reading Rasmussen & Anderton 2005: "Breast pattern and colour of breeding male variable both between and within races; central breast-spot ('star') white in some males, rufous or mixed in others".
 
Last edited:
Thanks, thought it may refer to a new type.
Maybe abbotti is actualy two seperate races? Is there known breeding between red and white-spots?
 
Bluethroat

Daniel Philippe said:
In other words "red-spotted" and "white-spotted" groups are not consistent.
Click to expand...
But is it only abbotti that occurs in two quite distinct forms/morphs? Most (all?) other subspecies seem to be more consistent (red/rufous, white, or unspotted adult males), although with some limited individual variation.

Richard
 
Luscinia svecica abbotti

Russlac123 said:
Maybe abbotti is actualy two seperate races? Is there known breeding between red and white-spots?
Click to expand...
Presumably the two forms interbreed - otherwise they would probably qualify as separate species (assuming that they're sympatric).

Richard
 
Richard Klim said:
But is it only abbotti that occurs in two quite distinct forms/morphs? Most (all?) other subspecies seem to be more consistent (red/rufous, white, or unspotted adult males), although with some limited individual variation.
Click to expand...

May be, but here is what Pierre-André Crochet (Birding World 17 (9): 354·355) writes after reading Zink et al. 2003:

"Nevertheless, two weakly supported clades separated the northern Eurasian samples from those of southern & central Eurasia. The northern clade included most samples of svecica, while the specimens of the other subspecies mostly fell in the southern clade, but there was still some mixture between these two clades. Some svecica specimens carrying lineages of the southern clade were found in central Asia, near the contact zone between both clades, but also well away from this contact area in Finland and northern Russia (north to Yamal). Several specimens carrying variants of the northern clade were also found in forms where mostly southern lineages were identified.
Thus, in Bluethroat, there is no strict association between geography and mitochondrial DNA, nor between subspecies and mitochondrial DNA. Furthermore, no subspecies or group of subspecies form strictly monophyletic units and there is no evidence of ancient divergence."
 
Thus, in Bluethroat, there is no strict association between geography and mitochondrial DNA, nor between subspecies and mitochondrial DNA. Furthermore, no subspecies or group of subspecies form strictly monophyletic units and there is no evidence of ancient divergence."
Click to expand...

So Bluethroat is just one species, and presumably this includes Turkish and Spanish types?
 
Richard Klim said:
Van den Berg (Dutch Birding) identifies four 'distinct' ssp groups ('sometimes considered specifically distinct'):

  • L s svecica 'Red-spotted Bluethroat', presumably including volgae, pallidogularis, abbotti, saturatior, kobdensis, przevalskii
  • L s cyanecula 'White-spotted Bluethroat', presumably including namnetum
  • L s magna 'Turkish Bluethroat' (unspotted), presumably monotypic
  • L s azuricollis 'Spanish Bluethroat' (unspotted), presumably monotypic
So namnetum is probably recognised by DB, but treated as a ssp of the cyanecula group.
Click to expand...

Thanks Richard, I overlooked that van den Berg has treated the first 2 (L. s. svecica and L. s. cyanecula) as “subspecies groups”.

The treatment of Clements checklist of this species is however confusing (to me anyway). He did not recognise the Iberian azuricollis while he recognised the less divergent (morphologically as well as genetically) pallidogularis. tianschanica was also recognised even that it is not substantially different from other chestnut-spotted subspecies. According to the study of Johnsen et al. (2006) the recognition of azuricollis is well supported than some other subspecies that Clements recognised.

Daniel Philippe said:
Thus, in Bluethroat, there is no strict association between geography and mitochondrial DNA, nor between subspecies and mitochondrial DNA. Furthermore, no subspecies or group of subspecies form strictly monophyletic units and there is no evidence of ancient divergence."
Click to expand...

Even the divergence is recent, it seems that L. s. azuricollis and L. s. namnetum are the most basal (pending further confirmation according to Johnsen et al. (2006)).
 
Zuccon 2011

Zuccon 2011. Taxonomic notes on some Muscicapidae. Bull BOC 131(3): 196-199.

Further to Outlaw & Voelker 2006, Zuccon & Ericson 2010, Sangster et al 2010, Voelker et al 2010, Boyd (TiF)...

  • With the transfer of Muscicapella hodgsoni to Ficedula, Slaty-backed Flycatcher F hodgsonii should become F sordida (Godwin-Austen, 1874), not F erithacus (as proposed by Outlaw & Voelker 2006).

  • The valid subfamily name of the African forest robins assemblage would be Cossyphinae Vigors, 1825 (as Boyd), not Erithacinae (as proposed by Sangster et al 2010).

  • The valid genus name for the clade including Cossypha caffra, C archeri and C anomala would be Caffrornis Roberts, 1922 (as mentioned by Boyd), not Callene (as suggested by Voelker et al 2010) - becoming Caffrornis caffer, C archeri, C anomalus.

  • The subfamily name 'Niltavinae' (erected by Sangster et al 2010) is a nomen nudum and not available at present.
 
Myrmecocichla chats

Richard Klim said:
Sangster, Alström, Forsmark & Olsson 2010. Multilocus phylogenetic analysis of Old World chats and flycatchers reveals extensive paraphyly at family, subfamily and genus level (Aves: Muscicapidae). Mol Phyl Evol.

Recommended taxonomic changes at species level (wrt Dickinson 2003):
  • Myrmecocichla spp > Oenanthe
Click to expand...
Forthcoming...

  • Voelker, Bowie, Wilson & Anderson (in press). Phylogenetic relationships and speciation patterns in an African savanna dwelling bird genus (Myrmecocichla). Biol J Linn Soc.
    The Bowie Lab.
 

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