Robins are flycatchers? (2 Viewers)

[Matt Prince]

Oh dear with botha those comments, I 'm shore the lark jokes been dunn to death now.

 

[birdboybowley]

Oh dear with botha those comments, I 'm shore the lark jokes been dunn to death now.

Dunno Matt, should be another way to Sabota-ge it before it gets too Monotonous......oh dear B

 

[Mysticete]

I once read a blog post where someone seriously suggested renaming American Robin as American Fieldfare (which I admit is kind of a cool name, but might lead to armed rebellion)

Of course it's a two way streak. Your flycatchers are polphyletic so it's probably just better to name them all chats: Spotted Chat, Pied Chat, etc

 

[Peter C.]

... or were you just alauding to it being fun??!!

Ow-ow-ow, that one hurts.... |=(|

 

[dantheman]

Don't know any larks outside the wp personally, so unlike the 'gentille allouete' from the french nursery song, don't think I'll be plucking any more lark jokes out of the air. (Think I crested a bit early.)

 

[Jacana]

wood you stop larking about now, the sun is in the sky, go and enjoy it

 

[Ben Wielstra]

Fascinating study by Zuccon & Ericson. I am not surprised that there is something going on with these Rhinomyias flycatchers.

 

[gusasp]

For anyone who doesn't have access to the paper, John Boyd has implemented it:

http://jboyd.net/Taxo/List26.html#muscicapidae

In short:
* Rhinomyias belongs near Cyornis (+Eumyias, Niltava), far from Muscicapa
* Muscicapa is split in an African and Eurasian Clade
* Brachyteryx groups with Luscinia (except the nightingales)
* The Luscinia nightingales form a group with Irania and Hodgsonius
* Cinclidium is closest to Myophonus, in turn grouping with the forktails, and in turn Tarsiger + Myiomela

I'm surprised how intuitive this arrangement is! I've always wondered what kept the Bluethroat and the nightingales together. Tarsiger+Myiomela, Brachypteryx with Luscinia (and East Asian "Erithacus"), Ficedula near the redstarts and chats, and Cinclidium+Myophonus sounds logical as well. And isn't Rhinomyias reminiscent of female Cyornis?

Still have a hard time imagining Copsychus+Cercotrichas with Muscicapa though, but I guess that's the way genetics go – who would have imagined the grebe+flamingo clade?

 

[Peter Kovalik]

Boyd's TiF is the freshest checklist without a doubt.

 

[Richard Klim]

TiF

Boyd's TiF is the freshest checklist without a doubt.

John Boyd is doing a good job, for sure. It's great to have someone rapidly prototyping (and sharing) the potential taxonomic implications of every new study.

Richard

 

[csanchez7]

By the way, I know John Boyd personally. He lives only ten minutes from my house. He is extremely knowledgeable as to avian taxonomy.

Carlos

 

[Peter Kovalik]

Muscicapidae

Fascinating study by Zuccon & Ericson. I am not surprised that there is something going on with these Rhinomyias flycatchers.

Zuccon & Ericson 2010. A multi-gene phylogeny disentangles the chat-flycatcher complex (Aves: Muscicapidae). Zoologica scripta.
Full pdf file

 

[Richard Klim]

Sangster et al 2010

Sangster, Alström, Forsmark & Olsson 2010. Multilocus phylogenetic analysis of Old World chats and flycatchers reveals extensive paraphyly at family, subfamily and genus level (Aves: Muscicapidae). Mol Phyl Evol: in press.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=56f7997313051141b7cc8c63dd884e10

This could result in quite a re-shuffle – John Boyd will be very busy!

Recommended taxonomic changes at species level (cf Dickinson 2003):

• Alethe poliocephala > Pseudalethe poliocephala
  [*]Saxicoloides fulicatus > Copsychus fulicatus
  [*]Trichixos pyrrhopygus > Copsychus pyrrhopygus
  [*]Rhinomyias umbratilis > Cyornis umbratilis
  [*]Rhinomyias olivaceus > Cyornis olivaceus
  [*]Rhinomyias additus > Eumyias additus
  [*]Rhinomyias insignis > Vauriella insignis
  [*]Rhinomyias goodfellowi > Vauriella goodfellowi
  [*]Rhinomyias gularis > Vauriella gularis
  [*]Rhinomyias albigularis > Vauriella albigularis
  [*]Ficedula monileger > Anthipes monileger
  [*]Luscinia brunnea > Larvivora brunnea
  [*]Luscinia cyane > Larvivora cyane
  [*]Luscinia ruficeps > Larvivora ruficeps
  [*]Luscinia akahige > Larvivora akahige
  [*]Luscinia komadori > Larvivora komadori
  [*]Luscinia sibilans > Larvivora sibilans
  [*]Hodgsonius phaenicuroides > Luscinia phaenicuroides
  [*]Luscinia calliope > Calliope calliope
  [*]Luscinia pectoralis > Calliope pectoralis
  [*]Luscinia pectardens > Calliope pectardens
  [*]Luscinia obscura > Calliope obscura
  [*]Luscinia chrysaea > Tarsiger chrysaeus
  [*]Luscinia cyanura > Tarsiger cyanurus
  [*]Luscinia hyperythra Tarsiger hyperythrus
  [*]Luscinia indica > Tarsiger indicus
  [*]Luscinia johnstoniae > Tarsiger johnstoniae
  [*]Chaimarrornis leucocephalus > Phoenicurus leucocephalus
  [*]Rhyacornis fuliginosa > Phoenicurus fuliginosus
  [*]Rhyacornis bicolor > Phoenicurus bicolor
  [*]Cercomela spp > Oenanthe
  [*]Myrmecocichla spp > Oenanthe
  [*]Thamnolaea cinnamomeiventris > Oenanthe cinnamomeiventris
  [*]Campicoloides bifasciatus > Oenanthe bifasciata

Also suggests that treatment of Copsychus (malabaricus) stricklandii White-crowned Shama as a ssp (eg, Dickinson 2003, BLI, Clements, HBW, but not IOC) may be premature.

Richard

 

[Peter Kovalik]

Sangster, Alström, Forsmark & Olsson 2010. Multilocus phylogenetic analysis of Old World chats and flycatchers reveals extensive paraphyly at family, subfamily and genus level (Aves: Muscicapidae). Mol Phyl Evol: in press.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=56f7997313051141b7cc8c63dd884e10

This could result in quite a re-shuffle – John Boyd will be very busy!

Richard

Wow, a lot of information about Muscicapidae in the last period. Now we get the picture!

Peter

 

[Ben Wielstra]

Awesome!

It is obvious that Cyornis concretus is something else, but no name change is proposed. What would apply to that taxon?

 

[Richard Klim]

White-bellied Redstart

H&M 3 Corrigenda 8 (2008) corrected the name Hodgsonius phaenicuroides to H phoenicuroides, citing Dickinson & Walters 2006 (SNAB 53):
http://www.repository.naturalis.nl/document/41775 [p153]

Phoenicuroides is used by Zoonomen and OBC; but not by Sangster et al 2010, IOC, BLI, or Cornell/Clements.

Comments...?

Richard

 

[Richard Klim]

White-tailed Flycatcher

It is obvious that Cyornis concretus is something else, but no name change is proposed. What would apply to that taxon?

Unfortunately: "The position of C. concretus within Clade D1 [Niltavinae] could not be resolved."

Richard

 

[Ben Wielstra]

But we now actually know something about its position! Based on figure 1 the Niltavinae shows a basal polytomy of four clades and one of these clades is Cyornis concretus. Even though the relationships among these clades are not clear, I think it is safe to say that Cyornis concretus is something else. Therefore it deserves to be in a separate genus. So would would that genus be?

 

[l_raty]

White-bellied Redstart

H&M 3 Corrigenda 8 (2008) corrected the name Hodgsonius phaenicuroides to H phoenicuroides, citing Dickinson & Walters 2006 (SNAB 53):
http://www.repository.naturalis.nl/document/41775 [p153]

Phoenicuroides is used by Zoonomen and OBC; but not by Sangster et al 2010, IOC, BLI, or Cornell/Clements.

Comments...?

Richard

The original work arguably has an "oe" in the Appendix on p. 153 (in any case, the graphy here is indeed different from that of the "ae" in "Muscicapa aestigma" on p. 155, as noted by Dickinson & Walters 2006).
But it also has a completely indisputable "ae" in the main text on p. 70 (which D&W did not check?).

If we have two original spellings, we need a first reviser.

 

[Richard Klim]

White-bellied Redstart

But it also has a completely indisputable "ae" in the main text on p. 70 (which D&W did not check?).

Hmm, well spotted, Laurent.

Richard