First pairs of binoculars - travel (1 Viewer)

[William Lewis]

Hey folks,

first time posting here after reading through plenty of threads for the past weeks. I don't currently own any binoculars (I think we can all disregard my 20€ ones with a loose lens) but I'd like to buy my first proper pair.

Now, I know this is a birdwatching forum but these would mostly be used during travel and only on the occasional hike here in Austria. In general, I travel for around 3-4 weeks per year and thought that it would be nice being able to look at buildings, landscapes or nature in more detail. Obviously different uses require different tools but I'd like something that works reasonably well as an all-purpose (e.g., African safari, tour through the Amazon, backpacking Central Asia or road trip around Japan), lightweight and glasses-compatible pair of binoculars. Also, seeing as I might spend close to 1000€, I want these to last a long, long time. Not necessarily for the rest of my life (I'm only 23) but a couple of decades at least without significant issues.

I've already decided to buy a Pentax Papillo 6.5x21 (110€) for looking at butterflies and bees specifically, and in my mind it could work well as a small, lightweight pair for city use. Alternatively, I could also buy the SW Curio 7x21 (710€), which has received plenty of praise throughout this forum. I don't really care about the focus wheel issues, as it's easily repairable.

However, I've come to understand that these small binoculars are still inferior to larger aperture ones when it come to well, any category except of size and weight. An 8x32 would clearly be superior to the 7x21 for the aforementioned Safari or Amazon River tour. So right now, I have a choice to make:

1. Buy the Papillo (use it only for close ups) and the Curio which would be used for everything else. It would save me quite a bit of weight (250g vs around 600g for my favourite 8x32s), size I don't really care about. Also, how noticeable is that weight difference in practice when carrying the binos in a good, supportive backpack?

OR

2. Buy the Papillo (use it for close ups and anytime I don't expect to see anything too special like in Cities) and an 8x30 or 8x32 (amongst my favourites are the SW CL 8x30, Kowa Genesis 8x33 or Meostar B1 Plus - I'm open for suggestions but would like to stay under 1000€) for hikes or more flora/fauna centred trips. I could get a used Swaro for a grand, the Kowa for 860€ and the Meostar used to be around 800-900€ half a year ago. These days it's almost 1300€ but I don't mind waiting for a while.

Kind of TLDR: I image it might be difficult to give exact recs to someone who doesn't even know their own preferences, so I'm only really after advice for choosing between Papillo + pockets or Papillo + compacts. I'll test a couple of binos once I know which size I'm after.

I appreciate any advice!

Cheers,
Lukas

Hello and welcome!

If I were in that position I'd be more inclined to go for a compact 30, 32 or maybe 35mm size.

You don't lose much (anything really) against an '42 in daylight unless your looking at getting the benefits of a larger exit pupil (easier eye placement, low light performance) and then your looking at a 7x42 or a large objective - 50mm or bigger.

32's etc aren't that much bigger than pockets but tend to be a good all round glass - I use 32's a lot for exactly the use case you describe, just out and about wanting to get a better view of things and birds.

Also pockets can be a little tricky with eye placement - I find virtually all pockets have eye cups too narrow to fit me without causing blackouts but you may be ok.

If I'm out birding i'll take an 8x56 but that's highly irregular for most birders!

I hope you enjoy whatever purchase you decide to make.

Will

 

[Old Jack]

The only thing I didn't like about the Kowa Genesis 8x33 is the soft edges. The Pentax ED 7x32 is sharp to the edge and handles CA better at 1/2 the price. From Allbinos.

Kowa Genesis 8x33 - binoculars review - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

Guys, the Kowa Genesis is not the model to which I'm referring, it's the much cheaper BDII 6.5x32 XD.
I might be wrong - I usually am - but if I understand correctly, Lukny is looking for a decent general use pair, rather than specifically for serious birdwatching, and also to carry round with weight whilst hiking.
Although my main bins are EL 8.5x42, I slip the Kowas in a pocket when I'm also packing an 883 on my back and a camera plus long lens, I haven't a clue re soft edges and all that malarkey, and, to my eyes, they're fine in low light.
As edwincjones says, try before you buy, you could save yourself many hundreds of euros. To spend on something else, of course....

 

[Paultricounty]

Nah, the Kowa Genesis 8x33 has soft edges. If you can't see them, you are blind. Maybe you are used to the soft edges on your Leicas and that is why you think they are sharp on the Kowa. Look at a Swarovski EL or a Pentax ED to see what sharp edges are.

Oh stop, you cant see soft edges anymore you think the Linet has good edges. Seems like you don't know what soft edges are anymore. Old former master Khan has lost his abilities. I think your more master PO .

The Kowa Genesis 8x33 has a tunnel like 8 degree FOV compared to the Linet's 13.5 degree FOV. Even with soft edges, the Linet has a way bigger usable FOV. The FOV on the Linet is so huge I have to look at the edges to see them. With the Kowa I notice them right away. I never liked the Kowa for that reason.

Compare a Kowa Genesis 8x33 to a Swarovski EL 8x32, and you will sell the Kowa the next day. I did.

Got them both, I don't compare EL $2000 alpha binoculars with field flatteners to $1000 upper mid level bins, you shouldn't either. That would be like someone saying a Linet is as good as an NL , nobody in there right mind or sober would do that, right? . Let me know when you want to sell the sigs, and the Pentax. I don't buy chinees, but Ill buy them from you.

 

[[email protected]]

Oh stop, you cant see soft edges anymore you think the Linet has good edges. Seems like you don't know what soft edges are anymore. Old former master Khan has lost his abilities. I think your more master PO .


Got them both, I don't compare EL $2000 alpha binoculars with field flatteners to $1000 upper mid level bins, you shouldn't either. That would be like someone saying a Linet is as good as an NL , nobody in there right mind or sober would do that, right? . Let me know when you want to sell the sigs, and the Pentax. I don't buy chinees, but Ill buy them from you.

My point is, you don't notice the soft edges on the Linet the way you do the Kowa Genesis because of the huge difference in the FOV between the two. The edges on the Linet are way out of your eyesight, whereas, the edges on the Kowa are easily seen because they frame the smaller circular FOV. If you have a 13.5 degree FOV like the Linet you don't need tack sharp edges.

You don't have to have an alpha level binocular like the EL to have sharp edges. The Nikon SE 8x32 and Pentax ED 7x32 both have sharp edges. Even the Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 has sharp edges, and it costs a $100. None of the Kowa's have sharp edges. It is the way Kowa designs their binoculars. They should reduce the FOV a tad on the Genesis 8x33 make it a tad larger with bigger prisms, and then they could sharpen up the edges. From Allbinos.

"Once again, though, too much emphasis was put on the big field of view and with small dimensions and vignetting prisms, we get the edge not as sharp as we would expect as a result. The Kowa would be probably better off with the field of view of about 7.8 degrees. Nobody could criticize it for it being too narrow, but its edge would look definitely better."

 

[Paultricounty]

My point is, you don't notice the soft edges on the Linet the way you do the Kowa Genesis because of the huge difference in the FOV between the two. The edges on the Linet are way out of your eyesight, whereas, the edges on the Kowa are easily seen because they frame the smaller circular FOV. If you have a 13.5 degree FOV like the Linet you don't need tack sharp edges.

You don't have to have an alpha level binocular like the EL to have sharp edges. The Nikon SE 8x32 and Pentax ED 7x32 both have sharp edges. Even the Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 has sharp edges, and it costs a $100. None of the Kowa's have sharp edges. It is the way Kowa designs their binoculars. They should reduce the FOV a tad on the Genesis 8x33 make it a tad larger with bigger prisms, and then they could sharpen up the edges. From Allbinos.

"Once again, though, too much emphasis was put on the big field of view and with small dimensions and vignetting prisms, we get the edge not as sharp as we would expect as a result. The Kowa would be probably better off with the field of view of about 7.8 degrees. Nobody could criticize it for it being too narrow, but its edge would look definitely better."

Many people I know take allbinos with a grain of salt, to many subjective conclusions that are stated as objective conclusions, they fool you all the time. Take another look at the Genesis. I guess we should apply your solution to the E2 as well. I think you need to measure your 13.5 Linet FOV, it’s not 13.5, it only says that on the prism cover, it was all advertising back in the heyday of the SWA battles 😧. It’s ok your still learning master Po 😜.

 

[iseegeorgesstar]

Hey folks,

first time posting here after reading through plenty of threads for the past weeks. I don't currently own any binoculars (I think we can all disregard my 20€ ones with a loose lens) but I'd like to buy my first proper pair.

Now, I know this is a birdwatching forum but these would mostly be used during travel and only on the occasional hike here in Austria. In general, I travel for around 3-4 weeks per year and thought that it would be nice being able to look at buildings, landscapes or nature in more detail. Obviously different uses require different tools but I'd like something that works reasonably well as an all-purpose (e.g., African safari, tour through the Amazon, backpacking Central Asia or road trip around Japan), lightweight and glasses-compatible pair of binoculars. Also, seeing as I might spend close to 1000€, I want these to last a long, long time. Not necessarily for the rest of my life (I'm only 23) but a couple of decades at least without significant issues.

I've already decided to buy a Pentax Papillo 6.5x21 (110€) for looking at butterflies and bees specifically, and in my mind it could work well as a small, lightweight pair for city use. Alternatively, I could also buy the SW Curio 7x21 (710€), which has received plenty of praise throughout this forum. I don't really care about the focus wheel issues, as it's easily repairable.

However, I've come to understand that these small binoculars are still inferior to larger aperture ones when it come to well, any category except of size and weight. An 8x32 would clearly be superior to the 7x21 for the aforementioned Safari or Amazon River tour. So right now, I have a choice to make:

1. Buy the Papillo (use it only for close ups) and the Curio which would be used for everything else. It would save me quite a bit of weight (250g vs around 600g for my favourite 8x32s), size I don't really care about. Also, how noticeable is that weight difference in practice when carrying the binos in a good, supportive backpack?

OR

2. Buy the Papillo (use it for close ups and anytime I don't expect to see anything too special like in Cities) and an 8x30 or 8x32 (amongst my favourites are the SW CL 8x30, Kowa Genesis 8x33 or Meostar B1 Plus - I'm open for suggestions but would like to stay under 1000€) for hikes or more flora/fauna centred trips. I could get a used Swaro for a grand, the Kowa for 860€ and the Meostar used to be around 800-900€ half a year ago. These days it's almost 1300€ but I don't mind waiting for a while.

Kind of TLDR: I image it might be difficult to give exact recs to someone who doesn't even know their own preferences, so I'm only really after advice for choosing between Papillo + pockets or Papillo + compacts. I'll test a couple of binos once I know which size I'm after.

I appreciate any advice!

Cheers,
Lukas

Getting a small-fragile pocket bino for something as demanding as the types of travel you describe sounds like a bad idea. I'd recommend getting something armored and durable.

I think you could have a lot of fun with the apm ed 6x30 which happen to be center focused porro prism binos.

APM-MS-6x30 Binoculars

The APM-MS-6x30 binoculars in classic design with BAK4 Poro prisms impress with their excellent price/performance ratio. @30mm clear aperture@6x [email protected]° field of view@diopter compensation ±5@high light gathering capability@full FMC multicoating@Weatherproof and waterproof

www.apm-telescopes.net

I don't know how sturdy they are but you still might have fun with them while you find your more rugged bino.

 

[[email protected]]

Many people I know take allbinos with a grain of salt, to many subjective conclusions that are stated as objective conclusions, they fool you all the time. Take another look at the Genesis. I guess we should apply your solution to the E2 as well. I think you need to measure your 13.5 Linet FOV, it’s not 13.5, it only says that on the prism cover, it was all advertising back in the heyday of the SWA battles 😧. It’s ok your still learning master Po 😜.

I had a couple of Genesis. Returned them both for soft edges. Funny thing, I agree with allbinos almost 100% of the time. The people that don't agree with allbinos have low ranking binoculars, usually Leicas. Even as some say over at Cloudy Nights the Linet is only 12.5 degrees, that still makes it way wider than any modern roof, including the WX.