Swarovski NL 8x32 vs Leica Duovid 8+12x42 Brightness Mystery (2 Viewers)

[ticl2184]

Hi Tim,

I posted earlier about my little 7x21 Swarovski Curios being brighter than my 8x42 Pentax and 7x50 Fujinons. The larger exit pupils are only relevant when it gets dark enough for your eyes pupils to open up bigger than the binoculars ep, and even then the difference in coatings, quality of glass and general design can offset the larger EP. One more thing, as we get older, our eyes become less flexible and don’t open as wide as they used to.

Thanks John....

But I tested a pair of 10x42 NL vs my 8x32 NL last night and even without my eyes being night adapted the 42 blew the 32 out of the water....

Just doesn't make sense ☹️

 

[John M Robinson]

Thanks John....

But I tested a pair of 10x42 NL vs my 8x32 NL last night and even without my eyes being night adapted the 42 blew the 32 out of the water....

Just doesn't make sense ☹️

That’s because you’re comparing two like binoculars, same top of line, quality glass, prisms, coatings, same NL design, so you eliminated all the factors except size. In that case, and it being nighttime, the larger ep will rule every time.

Your original post was comparing an older Duovid to an NL. I suspect the NL, even the 32mm size has a higher transmission than the Duovid. I suspect a 8x42 Noctovid would blow the 10x32 NL out of the water at night, but be hardly noticeable during the day.

 

[Paultricounty]

But how is possible that a 32 can outperform a 42 mm...
Looking into the shadows is better in the 32 which doesn't make sense...

Cheers
Tim

Better glass, newer design, better coatings and better transmission, that’s how it’s possible. It’s called technology.

 

[Paultricounty]

That’s because you’re comparing two like binoculars, same top of line, quality glass, prisms, coatings, same NL design, so you eliminated all the factors except size. In that case, and it being nighttime, the larger ep will rule every time.

Exactly and well said.

Your original post was comparing an older Duovid to an NL. I suspect the NL, even the 32mm size has a higher transmission than the Duovid. I suspect a 8x42 Noctovid would blow the 10x32 NL out of the water at night, but be hardly noticeable during the day.

And this is exactly true as well, I’ve had them both side by side, day and night.

 

[ticl2184]

Better glass, newer design, better coatings and better transmission, that’s how it’s possible. It’s called technology.

Better glass, better coatings and better transmission doesn't make a premium 32mm binocular out perform a premium 42mm....
A 42mm collects 75% more light than a 32mm objective..
It's called mathematics. Maybe you need to go back to School and also learn some manners whilst your at it...

 

[takitam]

Mathematics and binoculars are a very interesting combination. We also need to use logical reasoning here to draw the most logically sound conclusions. It's important to have a broad education, which most people in todays world are lacking. Abraham Lincoln said that specialization is for insects and I cannot disagree with him. Who in their right mind would disagree with the first president of United States of America? As a student of philosophy I can provide some important insight here. My background in mathematics lets me understand how comparing numbers works (a skill not possessed by many nowadays), and by looking at manufacturers specs of almost all e.g. 8x42 binoculars we may notice that they are all basically the same thing. No matter the price point. Ackchyually, some of the cheapest optics have the best specifications. Some people will tell you that they see different things through different binoculars of the same magnification. Don't believe them, they need to educate themselves.

So if I may apply my painstakingly precise logical reasoning skills here, a result of years of sacrifice and study - because mathematics is a language describing and showing objective reality (which subjective observations with flawed human eyes cannot do) and because mathematical numbers describing various parameters of a e.g. 8x42 family of binoculars don't and cannot lie, ergo hundreds of different binoculars by different manufacturers are really the same thing. It could be summarized by ∑∞n=0(−i)n∫dt1dt2⋯dtn=8x42 but I won't go into details here. Don't let propaganda fool you!

75% of light is seventy five percent of light. Mathematics don't lie. People who use their weak eyes and weak minds instead of accepting objective scientific truths cannot be taken seriously. Never forget that.



/s

 

[Paultricounty]

Better glass, better coatings and better transmission doesn't make a premium 32mm binocular out perform a premium 42mm....
A 42mm collects 75% more light than a 32mm objective..
It's called mathematics. Maybe you need to go back to School and also learn some manners whilst your at it...

It actually does and in many areas. There are different levels of premium. I’m not sure what you’re referring to about manners, I don’t believe I was being rude in any way by answering your question In a short precise manner. In this case it’s not about math, it’s about technology. It becomes math when you compare the two NL’s. Got it?

Paul

 

[ticl2184]

Mathematics and binoculars are a very interesting combination. We also need to use logical reasoning here to draw the most logically sound conclusions. It's important to have a broad education, which most people in todays world are lacking. Abraham Lincoln said that specialization is for insects and I cannot disagree with him. Who in their right mind would disagree with the first president of United States of America? As a student of philosophy I can provide some important insight here. My background in mathematics lets me understand how comparing numbers works (a skill not possessed by many nowadays), and by looking at manufacturers specs of almost all e.g. 8x42 binoculars we may notice that they are all basically the same thing. No matter the price point. Ackchyually, some of the cheapest optics have the best specifications. Some people will tell you that they see different things through different binoculars of the same magnification. Don't believe them, they need to educate themselves.

So if I may apply my painstakingly precise logical reasoning skills here, a result of years of sacrifice and study - because mathematics is a language describing and showing objective reality (which subjective observations with flawed human eyes cannot do) and because mathematical numbers describing various parameters of a e.g. 8x42 family of binoculars don't and cannot lie, ergo hundreds of different binoculars by different manufacturers are really the same thing. It could be summarized by ∑∞n=0(−i)n∫dt1dt2⋯dtn=8x42 but I won't go into details here. Don't let propaganda fool you!

75% of light is seventy five percent of light. Mathematics don't lie. People who use their weak eyes and weak minds instead of accepting objective scientific truths cannot be taken seriously. Never forget that.



/s

Agreed....

 

[Paultricounty]

Mathematics and binoculars are a very interesting combination. We also need to use logical reasoning here to draw the most logically sound conclusions. It's important to have a broad education, which most people in todays world are lacking. Abraham Lincoln said that specialization is for insects and I cannot disagree with him. Who in their right mind would disagree with the first president of United States of America? As a student of philosophy I can provide some important insight here. My background in mathematics lets me understand how comparing numbers works (a skill not possessed by many nowadays), and by looking at manufacturers specs of almost all e.g. 8x42 binoculars we may notice that they are all basically the same thing. No matter the price point. Ackchyually, some of the cheapest optics have the best specifications. Some people will tell you that they see different things through different binoculars of the same magnification. Don't believe them, they need to educate themselves.

Did I misunderstand you about Abraham Lincoln being the first President of the United States?

Are you actually saying that cheap inexpensive optics are better than expensive optics? And that people can’t see the difference in optical quality? The whole discussion here is literally about why one more expensive optic is brighter than an older less expensive one.

So if I may apply my painstakingly precise logical reasoning skills here, a result of years of sacrifice and study - because mathematics is a language describing and showing objective reality (which subjective observations with flawed human eyes cannot do) and because mathematical numbers describing various parameters of a e.g. 8x42 family of binoculars don't and cannot lie, ergo hundreds of different binoculars by different manufacturers are really the same thing. It could be summarized by ∑∞n=0(−i)n∫dt1dt2⋯dtn=8x42 but I won't go into details here. Don't let propaganda fool you!

75% of light is seventy five percent of light. Mathematics don't lie. People who use their weak eyes and weak minds instead of accepting objective scientific truths cannot be taken seriously. Never forget that.



/s

 

[John M Robinson]

Mathematics and binoculars are a very interesting combination. We also need to use logical reasoning here to draw the most logically sound conclusions. It's important to have a broad education, which most people in todays world are lacking. Abraham Lincoln said that specialization is for insects and I cannot disagree with him. Who in their right mind would disagree with the first president of United States of America? As a student of philosophy I can provide some important insight here. My background in mathematics lets me understand how comparing numbers works (a skill not possessed by many nowadays), and by looking at manufacturers specs of almost all e.g. 8x42 binoculars we may notice that they are all basically the same thing. No matter the price point. Ackchyually, some of the cheapest optics have the best specifications. Some people will tell you that they see different things through different binoculars of the same magnification. Don't believe them, they need to educate themselves.

So if I may apply my painstakingly precise logical reasoning skills here, a result of years of sacrifice and study - because mathematics is a language describing and showing objective reality (which subjective observations with flawed human eyes cannot do) and because mathematical numbers describing various parameters of a e.g. 8x42 family of binoculars don't and cannot lie, ergo hundreds of different binoculars by different manufacturers are really the same thing. It could be summarized by ∑∞n=0(−i)n∫dt1dt2⋯dtn=8x42 but I won't go into details here. Don't let propaganda fool you!

75% of light is seventy five percent of light. Mathematics don't lie. People who use their weak eyes and weak minds instead of accepting objective scientific truths cannot be taken seriously. Never forget that.

Shouldn’t you put that in a blue font lest some people think you’re serious.😀😀😀 Good one though.

/s

 

[ticl2184]

Did I misunderstand you about Abraham Lincoln being the first President of the United States?

Are you actually saying that cheap inexpensive optics are better than expensive optics? And that people can’t see the difference in optical quality? The whole discussion here is literally about why one more expensive optic is brighter than an older less expensive one.

What we"re actually talking about is the difference in brightness between a Duovid 8+12x42 which was discontinued in 2021 and a 8x32 NL which was bought in 2022. Indeed the Duovid is still available. See attached image..

Two premium class binoculars.

 

[Trinovid]

Abraham Lincoln said...Who in their right mind would disagree with the first president of United States of America?

Uhhhhh, what??? Was Lincoln quoting Washington then??

 

[John M Robinson]

I’m not putting the Duovid down, it’s a great Leica optic, but you posted your original comment about it being noticeably less bright than your 19x32 NLs, I hadn’t thought about it much either way. That said, I wasn’t surprised to read that it was less bright. I always assumed there were some design compromises made to make two different powers work inside one body. To my knowledge, nobody else has tried that. A better comparison would be your 10x32 NL against a 8x42 or 10x42 Ultravid HD+.

I think the other point I’ve been trying to make that you seem unwilling to accept, is that exit pupil size is unrelated to the overall brightness of an optic. By that I’m referring to the image brightness you see overall across the whole image. Once again, using my 7x21 Curio as an example, it is noticeably brighter than my wonderful 7x35 Leica Trinovid’s, even though the Trinovid’s EP is 5mm vs 3mm for the Curio. I haven’t tested them, but I would expect the Trinnies to catch up as it got dark, but maybe not.

 

[John M Robinson]

Uhhhhh, what??? Was Lincoln quoting Washington then??

I assumed the whole post was a joke, maybe not. It’s hard to tell over the internet.

 

[Paultricounty]

What we"re actually talking about is the difference in brightness between a Duovid 8+12x42 which was discontinued in 2021 and a 8x32 NL which was bought in 2022. Indeed the Duovid is still available. See attached image..

Two premium class binoculars.

I’m not sure what the argument is. There’s no relevance as to when one was bought, and one was discontinued. The NL is optically superior to the older design and coatings of the Leica, and that coming from a Leica fanboy. I would add brightness isn’t one of Leica’s best feature compared to S and Z. I have have tried most of of them and have many in my collection. Although I prefer my Leica’s , most of my Swarovski and Zeiss are brighter. Im just trying to share my experience based on the question. It seems lyou don’t like the answer. ✌🏼🙏🏼

 

[tenex]

Oy vey. Of course #26 was a joke, frankly one of the funniest posts I've seen here. It was provoked by Ticl's snide remark about how everyone else needs to go back to school and learn math, when he's the one misunderstanding transmission vs aperture. I can't believe I have to say this.

Yes, better transmission can "make a 32mm outperform a 42", whether "premium" (and outdated) or not.

 

[jafritten]

Thanks John....

But I tested a pair of 10x42 NL vs my 8x32 NL last night and even without my eyes being night adapted the 42 blew the 32 out of the water....

Just doesn't make sense ☹️

I don't have NLs. Looking through my Ultravids HD + at dusk I see more through my 10x than my 8x. The 10x shows more detail and seems brighter. It don't think the 4.2mm vs 4mm EP matters here but magnification. This is how I make sense of it.

 

[mulligatawny owl]

Comparing new to new, my Curios are noticeably brighter than my 7x35 Retrovids, though they are close enough for other attributes to outweigh the slight difference in brightness.

As much as I adore the Retrovid's I don't find their light transmission that high so I'm not surprised by this finding. The curios are a super bright and sparkling little marvel during daylight.
Apologies for going slightly off topic here.

 

[crinklystarfish]

For what it's worth: it seems to me that the OP's observations / queries have been more than adequately addressed and cogent explanations clearly tendered.

 

[Paultricounty]

Oy vey. Of course #26 was a joke, frankly one of the best posts I've ever seen here. It was provoked by Ticl's snide remark about how you all need to go back to school and learn math, when he's the one repeatedly misunderstanding transmission vs aperture here. I can't believe I have to say this.

Lol, my bad. I fell for it. It’s only because I’ve seen so many posts on the Binocular forum that made my head spin, I thought this could’ve been legit as well. 🙄