AOU-NACC Proposals 2019 (14 Viewers)

[Mysticete]

It's an English language checklist that sets the common names for english language usage. The NACC doesn't have secret police that are going to show up in Germany and make you speak English.

 

[James Jobling]

Fred, I think "Mysticete" must have forgotten his geography lessons, "Flags of the World," etc, when he wrote "in Germany" instead of "in The Netherlands."

 

[jurek]

FYI, the NACC has voted unanimously to change the name of McCown's Longspur to Thick-billed Longspur.

https://www.birdwatchingdaily.com/news/science/mccowns-longspur-renamed-thick-billed-longspur/

Super, so what exactly changed for better because of this?

 

[Fred Ruhe]

It's an English language checklist that sets the common names for english language usage. The NACC doesn't have secret police that are going to show up in Germany and make you speak English.

I am not complaining about an English chechlust, they must know for themselves. But I just don't want your "english problems" discussed on an international forum, not once, but at least twice a year, with no arguments that make any sence and remarks that sometimes are even insulting.

If English speaking people want to discuss their problems with English bird names let them go to a language forum or ask a moderator for a seperate forum, it has nothing to do with taxonomy or nomenclature. Please don't waste my time. Lets discuss birds an bird taxonomy and evolution, and if you want to, bird name etymology, subjects of interest.

Fred, I think "Mysticete" must have forgotten his geography lessons, "Flags of the World," etc, when he wrote "in Germany" instead of "in The Netherlands."

Yes I agree, I am a proud subject of His Royal Highness King Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand, Koning der Nederlanden, Prins van Oranje-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg etc, etc., also known as Prins Pils (Prince Lagerbeer).

Fred

 

[Jos Stratford]

But I just don't want your "english problems" discussed on an international forum.

If English speaking people want to discuss their problems with English bird names let them go to a language forum or ask a moderator for a seperate forum, it has nothing to do with taxonomy or nomenclature. Please don't waste my time. Lets discuss birds an bird taxonomy and evolution, and if you want to, bird name etymology, subjects of interest.

Nobody is wasting your time, only you do that by reading and engaging in a subject that doesn't interest you - if you don't want to read this thread, simply don't read it.

As for your suggestion that other posters don't use Birdforum to discuss English bird names here, bad luck - this is the correct place to do so. Maybe you have different ideas what nomenclature is, but most folk understand it as the system for naming things, especially in a particular area of science, ie exactly what is being discussed.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Yes I agree, I am a proud subject of His Royal Highness King Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand, Koning der Nederlanden, Prins van Oranje-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg etc, etc., also known as Prins Pils (Prince Lagerbeer).

What were you saying about using this forum only for taxonomy and evolution?

 

[Peter Kovalik]

R Terry Chesser, Shawn M Billerman, Kevin J Burns, Carla Cicero, Jon L Dunn, Andrew W Kratter, Irby J Lovette, Nicholas A Mason, Pamela C Rasmussen, J V Remsen, Jr, Douglas F Stotz, Kevin Winker, Addendum to the Sixty-first Supplement to the American Ornithological Society’s Check-list of North American Birds, The Auk, , ukaa074, https://doi.org/10.1093/ornithology/ukaa074

This notice adds one new entry (#1 below) to the 61st Supplement to the Check-list of North American Birds (The Auk: Ornithological Advances 137:1–24; https://doi.org/10.1093/auk/ukaa030) and corrects errors in two entries (#2–3 below):

1. [p. 626] Change the English name of Rhynchophanes mccownii to Thick-billed Longspur, after the relatively stout, conical bill referred to in the genus name, and make the associated change on p. li to the English name in the list of species known from the A.O.S. area (pp. xvii–liv). The English name was changed in light of heightened awareness of racial issues and the widespread retirement of Confederate symbols. Although this species was described in 1851 and was not named in recognition of McCown’s military career, McCown nevertheless played an important leadership role in the Confederacy. This change was made in accordance with the committee’s new Guidelines for English Bird Names (https://americanornithology.org/nacc/guidelines-for-english-bird-names/).

Other possible replacement names were rejected as indicative only of particular plumages (e.g., Black-breasted Longspur) or as not distinctive with respect to other species of longspur (e.g., Bay-winged Longspur, White-tailed Longspur). Habitat names such as Shortgrass Longspur were strongly considered but rejected as misleading due to this species’ occurrence in barren habitats during most of the year (winter and migration), when the other three species of longspur are found in shortgrass.

Replace the existing Notes with the following:

Notes.—Formerly known as McCown’s Longspur.

1. Under Entry 7 of the supplement, concerning the addition of Coccyzus melacoryphus to the U.S. list, correct the name of the town in southern Texas from Weslac to Weslaco.
2. Under Entry 32 of the supplement, concerning the merger of Corvus caurinus and C. brachyrhynchos, correct the first sentence to read as follows:
3. “Corvus caurinus is treated as conspecific with Corvus brachyrhynchos, following Slager et al. (2020), and is now considered a subspecies of brachyrhynchos.”

Replace the existing Notes with the following:

Notes.—Formerly (e.g., AOU 1983, 1998) treated as two species C. brachyrhynchos and C. caurinus Baird, 1858 [Northwestern Crow], but merged based on genomic data that indicate a lack of reproductive isolation with extensive introgression and backcrossing (Slager et al. 2020), clinal variation, and a lack of consistent differences in size, ecology, and vocalizations where the two are in contact in southwestern British Columbia and northwestern Washington (Rhoads 1893, Johnston 1961, Slager et al. 2020). Also known as Common Crow.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Explaining something embraced by Buffon as "a straight taking of" something from the work of Linnaeus doesn't strike me as having a high probability of being correct. (Buffon usually either rejected Linnaeus' work -- sometimes aggressively --, or ignored it royally.)

Here, Buffon originally used La Penduline, deliberately, for a bird which he thought distinct from the Motacilla pendulinus (1758) / Parus pendulinus (1766) of Linnaeus. He called Linnaeus' bird Le Remiz, and thought it was found in Italy and C/E Europe; he described La Penduline as a bird building similar nests, and breeding in Languedoc.
Le Remiz -- Histoire naturelle des oiseaux. (Note, i.a., the last footnoted ref on this page, which is Linnaeus 1766.)
La Penduline -- Histoire naturelle des oiseaux.
He was wrong, however -- only one species was involved, his Languedoc bird being apparently merely a juvenile of the Italian/C European species.

By the way, the name Remiz is taken from Polish, so what was the original grammatical gender of the name Remiz in Polish?

 

[michalb]

By the way, the name Remiz is taken from Polish, so what was the original grammatical gender of the name Remiz in Polish?

Right now it's masculine. (And probably was back then)

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Right now it's male. (And probably was back then)

Ok thanks. Because in French, many birders call it feminine, probably influenced by an old name "Mésange rémiz" (Mésange being feminine) and I think it's wrong and that Rémiz is masculine.

 

[michalb]

Ok thanks. Because in French, many birders call it feminine, probably influenced by an old name "Mésange rémiz" (Mésange being feminine) and I think it's wrong and that Rémiz is masculine.

"Sikora" (meaning mésange in Polish) is also feminine in Polish
But as far as I know, Remiz pendulinus has never been referred to as any kind of "sikora".

 

[kweetal]

Ok thanks. Because in French, many birders call it feminine, probably influenced by an old name "Mésange rémiz" (Mésange being feminine) and I think it's wrong and that Rémiz is masculine.

Howard & Moore 4.1, on the aviansystematics.org website, also has: REMIZ Jarocki, 1819 M - where M = masculine

H&M4 Checklist family by family - The Trust for Avian Systematics

H&M4 Checklist family by family

www.aviansystematics.org

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Howard & Moore 4.1, on the aviansystematics.org website, also has: REMIZ Jarocki, 1819 M - where M = masculine

H&M4 Checklist family by family - The Trust for Avian Systematics

H&M4 Checklist family by family

www.aviansystematics.org

I know about the genus Remiz, but here I am talking about the French generic name Rémiz used..... in French 😉

 

[l_raty]

Remiz Jarocki 1819 : Polona
Jarocki treated the name as masculine ("R. pendulinus").
However, what makes it masculine is arguably the fact that it reproduces exactly a Polish word, which is masculine (ICZN 30.2.1 supercedes 30.2.3).

Remiza Stejneger 1886 : v.9=no.549-598 (1886) - Proceedings of the United States National Museum - Biodiversity Heritage Library
This name was introduced independently of Jarocki's, despite the identical derivation.
(Jarocki's work was 'rediscovered' by GM Mathews in the late 1910s; it was 'lost' in 1886 -- it is quite safe to assume that Stejneger did not know about it.)
Stejneger latinized the Polish word by adding it a final -a, and treated this latinized name, accordingly, as feminine ("Remiza consobrina").

Someone took issue with that, however : Stejneger's name was emended to -
Remizus Prážak 1897 : Bd.2 (1897) - Naturgeschichte der Vögel Mitteleuropas - Biodiversity Heritage Library
...where Josef Prokob Prážak argued that the latinization to Remiza was incorrect, because "remiz" is masculine in Polish.