AOU-NACC Proposals 2009 (1 Viewer)

[Richard Klim]

Votes on Proposals 2009-A

http://www.aou.org/committees/nacc/proposals/2009_A_votes_web.php

Proposed splits of Aphelocoma woodhouseii, A sumichrasti, Loxia sinesciurus failed.

Richard

 

[Mysticete]

Western Winter-Wren? Ugh...Pacific Wren is so much better a name, and that hyphen is totally unnecessary. Besides Pacific is used for other tetrapod species without confusion, don't see why it would lead to confusion here (not to mention that the Eastern Winter Wren would by default including all other winter wrens from NA through Japan...NAME DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

 

[Mysticete]

Also my predictions for why certain proposals wouldn't pass seems to have been spot on. If only I could have that good of a predictive ability when it comes to gambling

 

[Richard Klim]

Winter Wren

...not to mention that the Eastern Winter Wren would by default including all other winter wrens from NA through Japan...

Well, not quite. Troglodytes hiemalis Eastern Winter-Wren would include only North American hiemalis and pullus. T troglodytes would encompass the Eurasian sspp, although T pacificus should perhaps include pallescens (Commander Is/Kamchatka).

[But I also hate those AOU hyphens – I'm hoping that Gill et al 2009 will eventually prevail.
http://www.worldbirdnames.org/On hyphens and phylogeny WJO 2009.pdf]

Richard

 

[njlarsen]

If the three way split goes through, then the names I would prefer would be Eurasian Wren (until further work is done), Winter Wren (for Troglodytes hiemalis) and Western Wren (for T pacificus) -- but I could easily live with Pacific for the last one. Inclusion of the word "winter" in the name for a bird that is resident in coastal central California does not seem that wise to me.

Niels

 

[Richard Klim]

Winter Wren

If the three way split goes through, then the names I would prefer would be Eurasian Wren (until further work is done)...

...or better still, Troglodytes troglodytes 'The Wren'.

Richard

 

[Mysticete]

Unless I misread the proposal however, the "eastern" winter wren wasn't getting split from the old world forms (although it should).

Western Wren seems a poor name, since Rock, Canyon, Cactus, and Bewick's are also "Western" Wrens. House and Bewick's are by far more common than the "Pacific Wren"

 

[njlarsen]

Richard's link in post 20 is to a new proposal that would do exactly that . The voting results for the previous proposal is what started that, and also what started the naming game :-O I personally would feel better about the name "Pacific" if the species also occurred on the west side of the Bering Strait. Maybe there should be a trend reversal: name it for the person that originally described pacificus: Baird's Wren!

And Richard, I agree: in daily usage, the name for the Eurasian form would be the Wren. (just like when I am in N Europe Kestrel means Falco tinnunculus, but here in Dominica, Kestrel means Falco sparverius).

Niels

 

[Richard Klim]

Winter Wren

Unless I misread the proposal however, the "eastern" winter wren wasn't getting split from the old world forms (although it should).

But the recommendation of Proposal 2009-E-1 (an addendum to Proposal Set 2009-A) is to elevate both Troglodytes troglodytes pacificus and Troglodytes troglodytes hiemalis to species status, separate from Old World Troglodytes troglodytes.

Richard

 

[Mysticete]

OHHHH....okay...I just saw the amendment and I thought it referred to the common names

I am apparently good at misinterpreting and misreading things if my recent posts are any indication

 

[Richard Klim]

Winter Wren

And Richard, I agree: in daily usage, the name for the Eurasian form would be the Wren. (just like when I am in N Europe Kestrel means Falco tinnunculus, but here in Dominica, Kestrel means Falco sparverius).
Niels

But when the species gives its name to the genus and family (Troglodytidae Troglodytes troglodytes), it surely deserves international recognition as 'THE Wren' – I hope the IOC team will give this proposal serious consideration...

Richard

 

[Microtus]

How is this for names?

Taiga American-Winter-Wren
Western American-Winter-Wren
The Wren


Or did I miss something?

 

[Mysticete]

no no no Taiga American Eastern Winter-Wren

 

[Mysticete]

FYI, in regards to Pacific Northwest critters, we currently have

Pacific Jumping-Mouse
Pacific Chorus-Frog
Pacific Giant Salamander
Pacific Marten (proposed American Marten Split)
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake
Southern Pacific Rattlesnake

So there IS precedent for Pacific as a Western US name...

 

[Richard Klim]

Winter Wren

FYI, in regards to Pacific Northwest critters, we currently have

Pacific Jumping-Mouse
Pacific Chorus-Frog
Pacific Giant Salamander
Pacific Marten (proposed American Marten Split)
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake
Southern Pacific Rattlesnake

So there IS precedent for Pacific as a Western US name...

...but can those examples be confused with Asian Pacific rim close relatives (as would be the case with Pacific Wren)?

Richard

 

[njlarsen]

Japanese Marten in Japan and the Koreas; Yellow-throated Marten to China and far eastern Russia; all according to the Wikipedia we all love to hate

Niels

 

[Richard Klim]

Winter Wren

Japanese Marten in Japan and the Koreas; Yellow-throated Marten to China and far eastern Russia; all according to the Wikipedia we all love to hate
Niels

OK, I admit defeat!
Richard :smoke:

 

[Mysticete]

hah


Also, until recently the Pacific Chorus frog was Pacific Treefrog (named changed due to taxonomy), and there are plenty of treefrogs in East Asia

There is of course also the Japanese and Chinese Giant Salamanders, although they truly are giants unlike the completely unrelated members of the Dicamptodon genus

 

[Microtus]

no no no Taiga American Eastern Winter-Wren

Thanks, I knew I missed something.

 

[ntbirdman]

no no no Taiga American Eastern Winter-Wren

I think Eastern-American Taiga Winter-Wren flows better :-O